Episode 97. DJ CAVEM: The Cross-Pollination of Art and Sustainability  

DJ Cavem 

Eco Hip Hop

TRT 56:36

[MUSIC]

Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement.

[MUSIC]

DAVID:

Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U Podcast. Today we have a very special guests in the studio with us, Dr. Ietef, also known as DJ Cavem. He is a celebrity DJ, vegan chef, public speaker, an educator, music producer, organic gardener, and also an environmental and food justice activist. 

In 2012, he studied indigenous agriculture in agronomy at the Makerere University in Uganda. He received his honorary PhD in Urban Ecology in 2017 from the Denver Institute of Urban Studies and Adult College. He is here today because he is a guest speaker at the Naropa community. So we welcome to the podcast, so how are you doing today?

DJ Cavem:

Peace and love, what’s happening? Namaste. What’s happening?

DAVID:

It’s going good man. Peace and love. Like today is a beautiful day. The vibe is beautiful. I’m really stoked to have you in the studio.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man. You know, I just floated out of the sky like a dove today, man, because it’s so blue and so gorgeous out. Like I was like, wow, man, like, you know, last time I was in Colorado it was snowing and so it was good to be back on, you know, on a solid ground. 

DAVID:

Yeah.

DJ Cavem:

Without the slush. 

DAVID:

Yeah, we don’t want the slush sometimes. I actually like saw you a couple years back, and I was really digging your vibe. You were talking to the Naropa community a couple of years ago, and it was just really cool to see what you’re about with the Environmental Studies, and you have a PhD from a different country altogether. You’re just like such a unique person. And it’s really interesting to like, dive into all this content with you today. So —

DJ Cavem:

Well, I’m happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

DAVID:

Yeah, here’s another thing I’m thinking about. It’s like fellow DJs. So we’re both DJs. So honestly, you’re the first DJ, I got to interview.

DJ Cavem:

Right.

DAVID:

So we might be able to like chop some things up that I don’t get to ask normal people. 

DJ Cavem:

Oh, man, let’s go there. Yeah.

DAVID:

All right. All right. So to start, you’re invited to the Naropa community to speak and I’m just curious, what is it you’re going to speak about? And what are you going to do with the Naropa community while you’re here?

DJ Cavem:

Well, you know, I came to absorb and give back and, you know, cross pollinate with each other. You know, I felt like, it’s important when we use the ideas of art to talk about sustainability, or like, food justice, or, you know, equality in some formal way, right? My focus right now, over the years, I’ve been on the front line, you know, it doesn’t matter if it was like, Students for Justice, or, you know, the Justice for Janitors, or you know, being on the front line, just in general, you know, not just for our environment, but for climate action. And just for women’s rights. You think about these kinds of conversations around culinary climate action, you know, how we’re using food, to address the issues of climate change. You know, being an emcee, dropping albums, you know, we have a big responsibility. And I’m saying we’re here to inform the people, you know, with us — what’s happening in the world, you know, so I decided to just dedicate my music to talk about issues that are facing not only the planet, but the people and animals, the birds and the bees and the trees, you dig?

DAVID:

I do dig. 

DJ Cavem:

You know? I feel like the neighborhood Lorax sometimes. 

DAVID:

Lorax. Okay.

DJ Cavem:

On wax.

DAVID:

Okay, yeah, we know what that’s like. I mean, from what you just said, it sounds like you have a lot of work that you do with educators and schools. So do you go to a lot of schools and talk to them? Because obviously, you’re here today with the university? Do you go to other universities and chat?

DJ Cavem:

You know, it’s a beautiful opportunity to come here to Naropa because I think about just the access that’s being created around just deeper esoteric knowledge, metaphysics, you know, meaning spirituality, you know, a lot of things that are, you know, not really as common when you seeing like, the average universities. So, um, I’ve had opportunities, you know, to speak at like UC Irvine, and like, Agricultural Department for like Tuskegee University and things like that, but you know, it keeps going on and on. I’m go down the line about the other schools, but you know, the thing about it, I love how unique this one is, you know, I mean, like the fact that you know, Boulder is such a healing space for, you know, a lot of people who come here, not only just to, you know, to deepen their practice in yoga and the thought process and the teachings of the Buddha, I think that, um, you see a lot of that happening just within the culture and how people come here to just study this self awareness. You know what I’m saying? Studying the stars, studying the earthquakes. Boulder just attracts like all this earth study, geology energy that I dig it, you know, I mean? So I feel at home, especially when I’m, you know, I’m from Denver, but you know, coming closer to the mountains is like, it feels — it feels beautiful, you know?

DAVID:

Yeah, as Trungpa would say, it’s like the magic where the planes meet in the mountains. You know, it’s like an intersecting point. Also, we’re definitely esoteric. Like, I know what you’re saying, like, I remember coming here 10 years ago, and being like, oh, boy, I didn’t realize it was this cool, you know? 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah.

DAVID:

You can talk Anunnaki. You can talk Dogons. You can — you can talk geometry of the ancestors and people are just there — they’re with you with here. And I mean, we just had like a yoga instructions and we also do like psychedelic therapy institutions. 

DJ Cavem:

Exactly. 

DAVID:

You kind of don’t get that at generic institutions. So yeah. Before we started our podcast, you go by DJ Cavem. And I just thought that was like a name you had, but apparently, it means so much more. And I’m curious, can you tell our listeners what that means?

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, it’s an acronym. It stands for Communicating Awareness Victoriously Educating the Masses. Motivation is the crew, you know, that’s what we do. We motivate each other. So you know, my name, multiple names I have, you know, I mean, but when I think about the style and the culture of hip hop, you know, it’s always about when you got to rhyme you always start off with your name, you start off with your crew, you know what I mean? And you show what you’re all about through your skills. Yeah, you know what I mean, it’s been an interesting time watching people transform. It’s not just about breakdancing anymore. It’s the 50th anniversary of hip hop this year, itself. And so we’re thinking about how that culture has progressed into this multibillion dollar industry where a lot of that has been sex, drugs and violence, you know, so when you can push, you know, food, clothing and shelter, and like, you know, beets, kale, broccoli, and, you know, roots, beans and grains. And, you know —

DAVID:

I just listened to wheat grass, before you came over.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man. And that’s the goal there, you know, the goal is to continue to redefine the image of wealth. You know, I think it’s very important when we see these companies going green, especially the ones we chastise for not going green. We got to celebrate. Because otherwise we’re gonna be like, we tried that stuff, and you guys didn’t buy that stuff. And that’s how — and then it’s our responsibility to redefine the image of what it means to be cool. I’m saying like, you know, composting, you know, we’re in like, you know, the, the hip outfits and like, you know, the, you know, the geo fitted, you know — you know, flashy vests and like —

DAVID:

Carry your own water bottle to yoga class. 

DJ Cavem:

You know what I mean, and like, if there has to be like — if it has to go to the point to where we understand that culture transforms through ideas of affluence, because we all want to have a better life, if that’s mind, body in a physical sense. If it’s in the mental sense, the spiritual sense, a lot of people always see the spiritual sense, reflect the physical. And so yeah, man, this is a good time where we get to celebrate, you know, the — the exotic muscle cars going going, EV, you know, I mean, we get to see this transformation of all the things that we’ve been asking about, let’s — let’s go green in some form or way. This is not just a squiggly light bulb era, we’re in the age of people care about geothermal.

DAVID:

Yeah, squiggly light bulb, I like that. So I really like the idea of what you just said, of making it cool. To be environmentally aware and conscious, because I think our age group, it is cool. But it also is an authority that we need to step up to, and to kind of like show kids that growing your own food, not only is exciting, it’s healthy, it’s fun, it gets you like in the ground, it gets you a relationship with earth and nature and your health. So it’s like, I don’t feel as though it’s easy to brand a message to the youth sometimes unless it does feel cool and exciting and something to do. And so the fact that you have this lens in which you can look through to like, like, hey, this could be fun, as well. And it’s also beneficial for you. I really liked that vision that you have.

DJ Cavem:

Oh, you know, thanks man. I am — because, you know, we are — we are because they were, you know, so it is like I said, like, you know, a lot of my elders, who I look up to, of course, you know, musicians in the record label industry might get that one off when they get a chance to talk about something real and it has to be on time of like a public event. You know, some kind of like critical mass that happens around gathering and galvanizing people around the feeling of, so you know, some like current event. And shout out to Cara for dropping beef. Shout out to A Tribe Called Quest dropping like green eggs and ham, and Dead Prez dropping Be Healthy and, you know, just these ideas of when they wanted to have more, of course, there could — there could be a way where you don’t really see it in the beginning of the light. But there’s always — there was always that one song by Marvin Gaye that talked about, you know, mercury in the sea, you know, what I’m saying, you know, I mean? So Mercy Me, right? So for the power of music, being able to influence people, if we can do it on a consistent level, that’s what I’m talking about, you know, I mean, so that’s — that’s the vibe.

DAVID:

Shout out to Mos Def and Blackstar and all that.

DJ Cavem:

You know, Black Gold, that was — that was a powerful song by (?), you know, about the petroleum industry, and it continues to go, you know, New World Water. So yeah, I see it as there’s a lot of influences that — that have a big goal in like continuing this — this flame and fanning the flame of environmental hip hop, eco hip hop, you know. I’ve been vegan for over 28 years, and I remember going to, you know, just Asian markets just to find like, you know, the Denver tofu and, you know, just the classic stuff, like, you know, rice milk. I’ll go back to the rice milk days, you know what I’m saying like, you know, like, nowadays, you could throw a rock or find a veggie burger. You know, I feel like —

DAVID:

Yeah.

DJ Cavem:

You know, culture and hip hop, have played a big role in this. 

DAVID:

Yep. 

DJ Cavem:

And those are the things to think about, like how we can continue to redefine that through food and foodies do that a lot. Especially in the chef’s, you know, chefs got to — we got to help people understand, like, what’s available, what’s in season, and when to stop, when to boycott. 

DAVID:

Yeah. And I came across a lot of people talking about eat within the season, because like our bodies shift with the seasonal changes. So might as well eat within those seasons. So I like hearing that. I mean, you’re coming as a chef, too. So you have, what is it 28 years of vegan and then you’re also a chef. So you have like a lot of experience. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, I mean —

DAVID:

There’s a lot of knowledge in you.

DJ Cavem:

Grateful. Grateful. Yeah. Recently, I’ve been working with James Beard Foundation, seeing like how their connection and like the whole culinary world has a big impact, but they still are doing their best of finding those local sustainable organic plant base chefs to acknowledge in the more professional world as well, too. So —

DAVID:

Okay, so you have this like environmental justice lens, you have a hip hop producer music DJ lens, and then you also have like a vegan culinary earth justice feel going on. And what I’m wondering is, you grew up in Denver, Five Points area, which is fairly close to Boulder, you know, you’re we’re kind of like neighbors in a sense.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, about 45 minutes away, it’s not too far.

DAVID:

You know, non traffic, air quotes. So what I was wondering how has growing up in Denver inspired you with the music and also the environmental work that you do? Because it’s very kind of like a unique combination that you have, and it’s very inspiring. But I’m curious, how did Denver influence you, like the place you grew up with? Maybe your friends that you had?

DJ Cavem:

Well, yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. When I think about the fact that it’s National Poetry Month, right now, I grew up around poets, pretty much raised around poets. My mother started a poetry venue, back in like 1997 that went all the way up until about like, maybe — it’s actually still going. It’s called Cafe Nuba known as Slam Nuba. And they have these huge Poetry Slam championships that they do, you know, year round, and just the whole concept of just being raised around people who write, you know, I mean, graffiti writers, and, you know, poets and musicians. And my father was a musician, he still — he still — still plays. He’s a photographer as well. So probably where I get that from. When I think about the concept of multimedia art, you know, I’ve been able to kind of stretch my mediums as much as possible to like, artists residencies, and painting and moving across from different perspectives. And a lot of that is because the community I grew up around, you know, like, so a lot of great elders like, brother Jeff and Opalanga Pugh and Cleo Parker Robinson. These are some of the people who are like, forefront pillars of like my community. And then having them be able to mentor me as I grow. That was a big part. And so I love going back to those centers and, you know, doing whatever I have to do. So yeah, that was always gonna be a beautiful place, but it’s where I got my — that’s where I started my farmers market, you know, career working with Mo’ Betta Green and Beverly Grant and you know, my children. I have three daughters all born in the Five Points, you know, all on full moons, you know, all in water. You know, I deliver — I delivered them all myself and I think about this all the time.

DAVID:

Waterbirth is pretty epic. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah man. 

DAVID:

That’s what you want to do.

DJ Cavem:

Lotus and all that jazz. 

DAVID:

Coming out of water, going into water. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man.

DAVID:

You know?

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man, it’s a beautiful thing. You know, it’s just like learning how to grow food, how to grow people, how to grow community, you know, I mean, you know, building drum circles, but also having like the, you know, the other aspect of that, too, you know, my youth was full of gang banging graffiti writing and just in and out of, you know, schools. And so those are the things that like, when you have that beautiful weight of like transformation. That’s what allows you to, like grow into things that are, you know, greater than your paths.

DAVID:

Yeah, it’s really good. It’s easy to fall in line with what’s around you at the time. And it’s hard — and then I think that’s why again, you want to make learning environmental justice cool.

DJ Cavem:

I mean, culinary climate action. 

DAVID:

Yeah.

DJ Cavem:

Eco hip hop, composting, and recycling. 

DAVID:

The list goes on.

DJ Cavem:

You can go down the line. You know, I mean, shout out to Ron Finley making it gangsta, you know, and that’s — that’s what we need to do. We need to do something similar that is closer to biomimicry in our own language, you know what I mean?

DAVID:

So I’ve heard you say this a couple times now. And I’m curious for our listeners. So on your website, and you said it, you say eco hip hop. Can you define it for us and for our listeners to let us know, like what eco hip hop is because we know what eco ecology is, and we know what hip hop is, but you’re — you’re doing this like really cool thing where you’re phasing them together. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, yeah.

DAVID:

So I’m just curious, how does that show up for you?

DJ Cavem:

No doubt. So, environmental, hip hop, you know, it’s the ideas of what we know, to redefine the image of wealth and sustainability, using hip hop. That’s exactly what it is. And so the eco, of course, is the environment, the hip hop is the higher inner peace, helping other people, the acronym, also known as intelligent movement, to be hip, and the hop is the movement. So we’re like using our mind to like transform the environment. We’re a sound power through our words and actions. You know, it’s cool to just be able to, like put this in perspective, but like, you know, there’s some rappers out there doing it, like, not everybody, I heard is dropping CDs, like, you know, I feel like we can transform our products, you know, so, instead of me just doing, you know, another pair of shoes, I decided to drop a juicer. I decided to drop a packet of seeds for my album distribution. I decided to like, you know, use my power as artist and put my — my ideas of compostable material together, you know, I mean, that’s — that’s really where it’s at, you know what I mean. We can easily use food as medicine, but it’s also good when you can teach people how to grow and not just give them something to eat.

DAVID:

Yeah, it seems like a lot of your work is the teaching aspect too. It seems like you can teach in many different ways. And not only like, can you teach people how to cook and teach people how to be vegan, and like, what’s good, what’s not good. And you know, what companies are good and climate change. I like how you infuse them all together, you know, you’re doing hip hop, but you’re also talking about probably being a vegan, and environmental justice within your hip hop. So you have this —

DJ Cavem:

I mean it’s a sense of like, indigeneity. You know what I mean? When I — we want to call it environmentalism, but it’s just really just like, being in tune with the planet as many ways we want to say, you know what I mean?

DAVID:

Yeah. It’s not an ism, it’s the way to be.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, I mean, I think about it as, like, you know, we can call it climate change, but you know, last time I checked now, every time we hear about like this, it sounds like the planet be warming and shifting and giant floods be happening biblically and all this stuff. I’m like we just gotta be a little bit more prepared mentally, and physically strong, you know, to actually, like, rise with the tide and, you know, ride that wave until you hit the show, baby, you know, I mean, but hopefully, you know, we don’t get, you know, a beach in Colorado, you know, I’m saying that’s the goal, right. So, you know, the — the growth of this is that there is a little bit of a hijack, you know, I mean, the environmental movement kind of got hijacked by the climate movement, and they don’t really communicate clearly together because some of them are just scientists who are watching, you know, the stars and the ozone and the sea level rise/ And then have people in the hood who are like watching like, trash on the ground and pollution and deforestation and police brutality is an environmental issue, which is a lot of that is tied into the effects of environmental and economic you know, weight. I can go down the line of food justice and the whole idea of food deserts and what that creates for people. A healthy mind is a healthy body, and when you got access to all of that, the whole green space, and man, it transforms everything. So, yeah, man, there’s a — there’s a deep connection and a spiral that happens when we — when we see how everything is impacted. You know what I’m saying, you know, not just — not just the trees, but to bees. And, you know, we got to, we got to think about them too. You know?

DAVID:

What’s interesting, too, is when we think about it, like scientists are so data driven, that they’re not in a community seeing what’s out — they’re not experiencing food deserts. They can be like, oh, you know, like, there’s 12%, food deserts in the United States, it’s like, what does that mean, for the people who are living in the situation with the food desert? It’s not fair.

DJ Cavem:

Talking to inner city youth, in Denver, Colorado, about how much plastic is in ocean, and they’re gonna look around and say what ocean? But if you talk to them about the landfills, that their homes are being built on, that transforms everything. You talk about environmental racism, and how they’re impacted from, you know, just things like just gas coming through your faucet. You know what I am saying? You know the whole idea is that we can transform through policy and action and just awareness. You know, and those are like, the things that a lot of times that environmental awareness is so — the reason why I think it’s — it’s losing its light, it’s because who’s — who’s been impacted. And when you think about from just that lens, where like, you know, the Dr. Ben Chavez kind of style, like environmental justice, that’s a different perspective, from, you know, our young sister Greta, you know what I mean? Which is just ocean, you know, it’s just the sea level rise. It is how that is gonna affect everything, and everybody at the same time and acidity in the ocean can easily transform if we do compost, if we do start putting the carbon back into the soil multiple ways, and drawing it down from rooftop gardens and wall gardens and closet gardens, we’re in Colorado, you know what I am saying?

DAVID:

Okay, I was like closet — oh —

DJ Cavem:

Yeah.

DAVID:

I see.

DJ Cavem:

So like, do what you got to do to like, you know, get on the sprout tip, because we have to use our microbiotic health, you know what I mean, to transform. I think our health is a big part of how we are helping the environment too. If we choose to eat healthy, we know that we actually eat more chlorophyll in food then like it’s a — it’s a geyser effect of consciousness if like, you know, we go up and down, and I think it’s like, the king tide we just kind of be ready,

DAVID:

I really do think that’s important is the food you eat is like a mental health situation too. You just want to be on it. But it’s not like something we’re taught very often, you know, you probably had to go to college to learn some of these advanced techniques where it’s just like, health — health should be like, standard.

DJ Cavem:

I mean, it’s an interesting perspective, you know, health is different everywhere else. You know, me growing up, when I looked at the diagram, you know, of the human body and never, ever looked like me. So it was a lack of diversity in the medical industry. So I got a lot of my knowledge from Rastas. I didn’t really understand what the word vegan was for the long while, you know, I thought it was all just (?). So I thought about it from my perspective of like, my plant based lifestyle was, you know, kind of created from this, like, indigenous Afro indigenous perspective of bushmen mentality, you know, and I think about it, how healing that was for just my biological makeup. You know, most people nowadays, they call that the Sebi diet, to teach you the queen of Afua, or Dick Gregory or Llaila Africa, there’s a lot of great healers, who like have these books out, you know, like African Holistic Health, I had that book in the 80s. It’s full of like this, all of these remedies and, you know, drink this, eat this, and it does this. (Light laugh). And it worked. And like, so those are the things that like when you start to know thyself, and knowledge of yourself, you know, in multiple ways, you know, you have to heal the mind and the body will follow, you know? 

DAVID:

Yep. Totally on board with that. So, I feel like you’ve sort of answered this a little bit, but I’m gonna ask this question, and see if there’s like anything else in there. So I’m noticing within your work, that you focus on the importance of the environment, and how we can you know, better ourselves and better the environment around us. But what I’m interested is it’s not just the environment that we think about as Earth, but we also think about like our environment of our body, our environment of our minds. So environment can kind of not just be the thing we stand on or experience when we go outside. And I’m curious, why is that important to understand there’s multiple environments to work with? Than it just being like the one outside that’s the ground or —

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, I mean that’s — that’s in general, you know, shout out to my crew you know, my ancestors, Afro Cherokee, you know Lakota Sioux Blackfoot, you know what I mean? Yeah, it’s going down. You walk up into houses you can smudge down with some palo santo, some sage or something. The environment, you know, I mean, like, you know, I was raised around black family so you can’t even sit on the bed with your outside clothes. You have to like change your clothes. There’s like a whole other idea of like not just taking off your shoes, but like just the spirit you know, there’s certain ways that we speak around our elders. It’s the same way that you should speak around your home, it’s your sacred space. I’m a guy, I sleep nude, you know what I mean? Like I know I can find me in my dreams, you know what I’m saying, like the energy around the environment is so important you know, and it’s important to create it to you know, you put the snake plants in your — in your house. You can get the great oxygen and they are going to help you and like everything goes back with just you know the salt lamps and the flowers outside, you know the birds who sing back to you because you keep the bowl of water for them, you know what I’m saying? Like it’s a relationship. Like you do this and this happens. So that’s what I notice about it too. You build a garden that’s open to the public, everybody’s going to enjoy it, you know what I mean, crime rate goes down. You know what I mean? The experience, the life, the biodiversity that happens when you know, all because you’ve built a garden, you what I mean? And that’s why you know, people like Will Allen and Ron Finley and the East Side growers, you know south central farmers, you know, collective and all the — all the people who have been at the forefront of like really trying to create brave space. We have enough safe space — 

DAVID:

Brave space?

DJ Cavem:

Brave space. 

DAVID:

I haven’t heard that one yet. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, shout out to this — to my crew of Apollo —

DAVID:

Okay, I think I like where this is going though.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man, cuz you gotta like — you gotta be brave, like, you know, I mean to, like, keep planting stuff and like, in soil that that wasn’t there, you know — you know, when you — when you got to do soil testing and check for the mercury and, you know, I mean, you put down a 20 by 20 plot and, you know what I’m saying like just topsoil just to be able to grow for your community, that is brave man. It’s brave to continue to grow when you know, it might get picked, you know I’m saying. And that’s um, that’s a — that’s a beautiful thing. You know — you know, if you love a flower enough to just let it grow, instead of picking it. Shout out to Siddhartha.

DAVID:

Our homie here. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, yeah. 

DAVID:

Next to the mushrooms and the boombox.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, and see —

DAVID:

We got the vibe. So okay, this is a little bit more music based. So I saw that you worked with Stickman from Dead Prez? 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah. 

DAVID:

And what was it, the song was called, Wheatgrass. 

DJ Cavem:

Yes —

DAVID:

The song you worked on?

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, yeah, shout out to Stickman and Doodlebug from Digable Planets, both on that song.

DAVID:

Okay, there you go. And I just wanted to say, so I come from like Los Angeles, the West Coast and I grew up with Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre. I had the cassette tape, you know, like, that’s how — 

DJ Cavem:

Oh, yeah.

DAVID:

That’s how far we go. And when I first heard Dead Prez, they blew me away. Because I was not prepared for like conscious hip hop. I just was so used to —

DJ Cavem:

Oh the gangster —

DAVID:

Sipping on gin and — you know what I mean? Like, it was a bit different back then. And when I heard Dead Prez, he’s talking about like eating greens and being healthy and like playing chess for your mind, and like, supporting the women in your culture. And I was just like, dude, this is different. And they’re like, the beats are hard too. It’s like — it was good.

DJ Cavem:

Stick on those beats man.

DAVID:

And I was just like, so into it. And it was just so healthy and refreshing to me to hear that, but I listened to a couple of your jams too. And you had that same vibe, you have that like speaking truth, saying what’s up, you got facts, you got knowledge, you have experience, you have all these different things and like, your beats are hard, and they hit really well. And it’s like, you kind of have this early 90s — I feel like hip hop was so pure back then. You have like this early 90s vibe and style, and I really liked it. And what I’m wondering is, like how important is it to use the application of music to teach kids and or people these techniques and these things that you’re sharing, you know, with — you have a PhD — you’re super — you know what you’re doing. So it’s pretty dope that you can like, have this message that you can give to a bigger audience. But, how important is that to use hip hop in producing?

DJ Cavem:

I found it very important to use hip hop as a tool to talk about not only sustainability but just, you know, keep it real, you know, it could just be about the things that we love, you know what I’m saying? It can be about our experiences. For me, it’s lifestyle, you know, some people grew up on the streets. And so they talk about the street life. Me, I was in the farmers market, so I talk about being in a farmers’ market, you know what I mean? Like, wrote this song called — it’s called Garden Snakes, working on it with the homie Trev Rich and his — his brother named Mets, from the Living Legends and verse goes, garden snakes out, garden snakes out. Pocket full of green’s, watch your big mouth, we got terminator seeds, take your lights out. I’m gonna sell a lot of greens, watch me break out. Always on the phone, always on the phone….on track, got another home. All the farmers on the block got that skin tone. So I’m gonna post upon the market till it’s all gone. 

Like this different — different ways of articulating of being at a farmers’ market. That’s the goal there right? That’s the — the mantra is to see, you know, that our gang signs are mudras. You know, I mean that everything is sacred. There’s purpose in tribalism. You know, there’s purpose in identity. Some people just have to, you know, have a way to deepen their heart. And they do that through showing what they love. And sometimes, that’s their community, sometimes just, you know, their plants, their cats, you know, some people really celebrate their cats, like on Instagram pages for them and all that, you know, that’s what I am saying. You know, as we continue to love culture and yeah, man.

DAVID:

We love the cats. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man, we continue to —

DAVID:

Felines you know.

DJ Cavem:

We uplift — we uplift the ones who love us back. We as artists, we rely on going where we’re celebrated, especially when you have to deal with going places where you’re just tolerated and stuff. You know, it’s like, just being there.

DAVID:

That doesn’t stop one.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah.

DAVID:

I don’t want to go there.

DJ Cavem:

You know like —

DAVID:

Unless the message is that potent —

DJ Cavem:

That’s why the arts has — it’s like the lifestyle. So it’s like, even for environment artists, like you look at it from a perspective of like, affluence. There’s a lot of humbleness in it, you know, a lot of them are coming out of like this post anti-capitalist mentality. So when it starts to come down to the mentality of how do we grow our community, there’s struggle there. So I love to encourage artists and activists out there who are, you know, thinking about pursuing environmental arts, or just pursuing the arts to talk about mission driven perspectives, when you don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you. It’s kind of like getting government grants and then talking about the government. You know, or chastising them when they don’t do right, you know? And so those are the things to think about is that you have to be financially aware through so many different levels of not just that you’re creating your products or your art, you know, create your — a way to reach people, build that fan base through email lists, having like a deep connection with like, your physical health. So, you know, it doesn’t come in between, like your way to present. What I mean that man, like that stuff will take you far. You know, I mean, like us, you just got to continue to be productive and that creation will — you gotta think like a perennial, yo, you know, you got to continue to grow.

DAVID:

Yeah, I really liked that too. Okay, have you ever heard of the HLF, The Holistic Life Foundation? 

DJ Cavem:

No, it sounds cool though. 

DAVID:

It is cool. It’s — so it’s actually a couple friends of mine. There’s three guys, they are from Baltimore. They teach inner city kids’ meditation and mindfulness. And they have this like whole organization, but like you guys need meet. You guys have a different way of displaying your information, you’re a little bit more healthy based. They’re like yoga mudras — they’re all yoga based and meditation. But I think you guys would vibe so hard.

DJ Cavem:

Yes, I’ve — I’ve been doing yoga since I was six years old, man. 

DAVID:

Geez, okay. 

DJ Cavem:

So like yeah, just left…yoga retreat center. You know, I mean, deepening my practice and following up on that teacher — teacher certification and — 

DAVID:

So many dimensions to your geode. 

DJ Cavem:

Well, yeah —

DAVID:

It’s like you turn a different way, you get shiny —

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, yeah, health is wealth you know. Being like I said you know, like, you know my health care looks like a blender, a yoga mat and a juicer and a dehydrator occasionally and a cutting board and you know so things are, they continue to change as we — as we gain access and awareness, you know?

DAVID:

Okay. I would say mine’s a blender, a drum set and occasional alone time. 

DJ Cavem:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, man, you know. 

DAVID:

Seclusion.

DJ Cavem:

I dig that. You know tigers walk alone, man. We got a tiger sign, I know how that feels.

DAVID:

That’s right. So I’m noticing there are so many different varying messages when it comes to music. Some have like good intentions and others not so much. I’m wondering why is it important to have music as a platform to be using for the messaging that you’re doing? Because you do, you know, you do talks, you do speaking arrangements, but you also have like a musical side to you. But you also kind of infuse the information that you give to people with the music and do people hear you more when it’s being distributed through the music, instead of like a talk about cooking some vegan food or like a talk about showing up to the garden or whatever, like, do people hear the message more when it’s in a musical setting?

DJ Cavem:

I think it all depends. I feel like people hear me more when I’m definitely cooking. You know, anytime — I did an event on a college campus, and I’d just yell out free pizza, you know people are gonna show up, you know? So free food. 

DAVID:

Did you tell them it was vegan free pizzas?

DJ Cavem:

Oh, man, of course it’s going to be Vega. Of course, it’s gonna be — it’s coming straight from City O’ City, you know what I mean?

DAVID:

That’s good pizza too. 

DJ Cavem:

Hey, man, between them and Piante’s and every, every — Everybody’s Peoples and I can’t keep up, man there’s like this — there’s so much — like I said, like back in the day, it was it was slim pickins, man. 

DAVID:

Now you go —

DJ Cavem:

Yeah man, everybody got something I can — I can get down with. You know how many times I had to walk into a restaurant and ask for the cutting board and just give me a knife. And some Bibb lettuce, and I’m just gonna — and some olive oil. Yeah, so the simplicity is not like that. But yeah, man. I do like the — I do like the fact that it’s cool now. You know, it’s open — it’s an open game for everyone. You know? 

DAVID:

How are you inspired with the messages that you tend to speak about? What inspires you because, you know, I could hear your music and you inspire me and I can like — I’ve actually seen you with a blender, you know what I mean? So it was — that was a couple years ago. And so I’ve seen you in those settings, but I’m curious what inspires you?

DJ Cavem:

Man, the things that inspire me definitely, originally was being hungry. I love to eat. And so I love to grow food because I love to eat. And then I was like, you know, this is the best thing in the world, I will write music about it. You know? And I took that stuff so seriously bro, you know what I’m saying? I gotta echinacea tattooed on my arm, you know I’m saying like it’s for life. 

DAVID:

I feel you.

DJ Cavem:

So, like yeah man, it’s a good vibe. You know as far as like the things that I take seriously, the things that I appreciate. You know like you know my mentors, you know, Chef Brian Terry and Gail Simmons, Ron Finley, Erica Allen, my mother Ashara Ekundayo, people will be putting in work. I see them putting in work in the dirt — that’s — that’s really what I — that’s what I look up to you know what I mean? Like when it comes down to like, the things that inspire me, these — you know, the kids you know what I mean, when you can get 70 kids to sing about brown rice and broccoli, you’re doing a job, you know what I’m saying. And that’s why I realized what it is, you know, the younger they are the dirtier they are willing to get, you know what I’m saying. Middle school, they’re just hungry, all the time. High School, they want to know where the money is at, and they don’t want to mess up their jays.

DAVID:

Are you talking about the kids or are you talking about the executives, principals — 

DJ Cavem:

The kids — the kids — 

DAVID:

Highschooler’s are worried about where their money is?

DJ Cavem:

They’re worried about — yo if you go in there and you talking about you got — talking about you got any kind of occupation, they want to know what you making, you know, it’s interesting enough. When I was talking about sustainability with students, a lot of them were really into the whole horticulture, permaculture perspective to become bud tenders and go into the dispensary industry. I was like alright, that’s — that’s great. You know that you’re thinking about plant based medicines. I was like, you know, there’s a lot of other plant based medicines out there, not just that one. I was like have you heard of ashwagandha? Yeah, they were like yeah, have you — have you have you tried this? Have you tried that? Like, you know, like trying to get kids excited about stones and you know, crystals and like —

DAVID:

Like mycelium medicine?

DJ Cavem:

Oh man, just in general if they just understood just that they’re loved first and that they reflect the sun, you know what I mean, that tears are made diamonds and like just how delicate and like, you know that they are, I think that — I think that that’s — that’s what’s going to change their mind. They have to just feel like they are part of some important stuff. Sometimes important, sometimes big and then from there, they — that’s all they need. You know, when they know their role, they’ll do it. But they have to know what the role is. You know what I’m saying, like if they know they need to be at the water, they’ll water.

DAVID:

I mean, I got a lot of plants in my living room, and I always feel like they talk to me. Plants don’t shut up. They’re pretty vocal if you — if you can listen in. And most of the time, they’re just saying I love you! What’s up that? So okay, here’s something interesting is I noticed almost literally exactly a year from today you released your concrete garden. You realized it on 4/22 and it’s 4/18 today, so it’s like almost a one year anniversary for your album release.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, it was an EP man. I’m excited for that full project to get dropped you know, the EP was amazing. Koncrete Garden spelled with a K. You know what I mean? We had that popping at the McNichols building downtown Denver, lowrider Bike Festival. We had… get out there making like this like cayenne grilled hibiscus flower. Oh my god, Ron Finley pulled up. You know what I’m saying? We had like all these like educators and garden — garden school teachers from around the nation pulled up. We were partnering up with Sprouts and Dr. Bronner’s and the city and Meow Wolf. And that was like, it was dope. You know what I mean? So, you know, doing something like this year. Doing something like this year, we’re celebrating, you know, not only with family and friends, you know, here, you know, on the campus, but also going to be with Meow Wolf this year. So, you know, I think about what Koncrete Garden means to me. Koncrete Garden means to literally just grow out of the — out of the earth for me, you know what I’m saying, like a dandy line, unapologetically, you ain’t pulling me out, like, straight up milk thistle in the middle of the concrete like walkway, like milk thistle at the bus stop, like — like what in your face like that. And that’s, concrete gardeners are the — are the youth who are selling the kale chips on the corner. You know what I’m saying? These are the — these are the inner city kids, you know what I’m saying with the hoodies and the sprouts. And this is what I’m talking about. You know, I love the whole idea that if we really want rooftop gardens, then we know who’s — it’s the inner city that’s gonna be growing and we have to think about what that looks like to transform and support these urban CSAs. Normalizing it through music was my first — first project outside of dropping the last album, the Produce Section, because I wanted people to meet me in the produce section, which we did a whole tour in grocery stores across the nation doing so. 

DAVID:

That’s awesome. So another thing I noticed was you gave people like a pack of seeds, when they got the album, and I was thinking to myself, well, I guess that’s another way to drop beats because you give them beets, and I was like, oh, he’s just dropping beats for them. But like, do you ever — do you ever get people like sending you Instagram photos of the seeds they grew and —

DJ Cavem:

Man, yes. You know if — you can always go on my page — just my first name, Ietef, I-E-T-E-F and people tagged me all the time. I have a section on the bottom of the page called Biomimics. That’s from the last project when I did beets, kale and arugula. It was amazing. So many people sent in pictures and the most beautiful story that I ever heard was in Minneapolis. I met up with some urban farmers who came to like this young — young urban gardeners growers collective or something like that, like those like this conference that was happening. And this brother and sister — that was — it was cool, man — that was coming out uh, out of Minneapolis, St. Paul area. It’s like the earliest like 2019, December, right? They already put it in the ground. Yo, by the time June came around, and George Floyd was hit, the whole situation that they were able to have kale supplying in these co-ops during the whole time when they actually had the curfews, and no food was coming into cities. So just having like something revolutionary, providing for community in a time of need is probably one of the most beautiful highlights of the Biomimics album. The whole goal to create biomimicry and literally feeding people in a time of revolution.

DAVID:

Kale is ruthless. It’ll grow in the snow. I had some Russian kale, and it just would not go away. Kale is a beast, so —

DJ Cavem:

Shout out to the kale. All the cruciferous, all the kales.

DAVID:

Nice, I tend to go arugula is my favorite. Does it taste like peanut butter to you? I heard there’s like a certain taste bud that people have that you know how like, what is it, there’s like a certain herbs that makes it taste like soap to certain people. 

DJ Cavem:

Oh yes, cilantro. 

DAVID:

Yeah, cilantro can taste like soap to people, but I guess arugula can taste like peanut butter to some people. And I have that, and people are like what do you mean? I’m like, it tastes like peanut butter. I don’t know what to say.

DJ Cavem:

That’s crazy. I might have to go put my flavor to the test — 

DAVID:

Piece by piece, see if it gives you that vibe. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, sometimes I’m thinking of like, oh yeah, I smell like nail polish when I like — when I’m randomly chopping like cilantro sometimes. I’m like —

DAVID:

Nail polish. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, it’s like I don’t know if that’s just like bad — bad juju energy, I need to like clear —

DAVID:

Is that like a COVID thing where COVID messed up your smell or —

DJ Cavem:

Nah, never — luckily, I never — bruh, I never even got COVID. I think it’s all the mulling and the tea and herbs and all that stuff.

DAVID:

So, I noticed, we’ve been talking about it a little bit, but you have — the ways you show up with shows, events, workshops, talks, you know, cooking situations, demonstrations, things like that. I even also saw that you like giving go to music festivals, so I’m sure you are like either doing like talks or even musical performances. And like, these are all ways that you are able to show up to events. And I’m wondering how do you get creative in these different ways of speaking your message to different communities, because I’m sure you know, maybe going to a school rally might be a different situation than if you’re at like a university, or if you’re at a music festival. So there’s different ways to convey the message. And I’m wondering, how do you conform to the specific event space that you’re in?

DJ Cavem:

Well, you know, it’s just like being a yoga instructor, you have to know when to pay attention and make adjustments when needed when you see things are out of form. Or being a DJ, you got to know when to switch the song when see it’s either getting all — or people aren’t vibing with that. And so reading the crowd is important —

DAVID:

Which most DJs don’t understand sometimes. because I’ve been in environments where I’m like bro —

DJ Cavem:

That’s because some of them are — they’ve got playlists. And they’re like, keeping — they’re like they’re sticking to their playlists —

DAVID:

Play button. 

DJ Cavem:

You know and DJ press play, we all know — we all know, one, you know? But um, the culture is always gonna be transforming. For me, I love speaking engagements, I love going to schools and doing full on assemblies with a student body of like a middle school or high school, elementary school, or even a college. But the whole process of that is, I love using hip hop to talk about food justice, sustainability, composting. I love just going in and just dropping beats literally on — on the table and like making beats with vegetables, and, you know, connecting that on a deeper level with people so that they understand, you know, about like, how we’re all electric. And you know, of course, the culinary side of that is so much fun, like, you know, we eat to live, you know, and you know, food is medicine. Shout out to, you know, Hiprocracies for the classic quote, but we understand that it’s not just that, you know what I mean? Like it also is — it’s a part of the energy that we have. It’s — food is compost, you know what I mean? Food is — is also our ticket towards addressing climate change. When we start to use our tools the right way, you know what I’m saying you can step up in any arena. So if I’m coming in as a chef, as a business owner, as a CEO of a seed company, if I’m developing like ideas with my friends and family around Plantega. You know, Plantega was an idea, a brainchild during the pandemic of how we can give back to ground zero, the home of hip hop. So we’re literally flipping bodegas in the middle of New York City to have plant based options available, subsidized in the middle of the hood. Coming out of like, you know, you like that vegan butter you’re paying six bucks for a Whole Paycheck, you can come to Plantega, you can get it for like $3. You know what I’m saying, and that’s the goal is to make things available. And we transformed the idea of what that is. So that all moved into like paying attention to the community, we read the crowd. People were like, well, we need something we can move with. So we made the vegan chop cheese on the deli, you know what I’m saying. These are the things that you — that you do to understand, you know, the needs of your community. So, hip hop is — is that — that same level, like I said, when you see these brands that we love, and we chastise to, and we talk mad crap about what we seeing them doing wrong to the environment, but when we see them doing right, we need to celebrate them. We need to tell them that this is what we want, so we watch them continue to supply that demand. So these are the things that how we shift our culture, we redefine the image of wealth and we use hip hop to do it.

DAVID:

I agree with that. The positive reinforcement, because I think a company — it’s so easy to just be like oh, if companies just doing whatever, you just don’t say anything, but if they’re doing a good job, I think it’s good to celebrate that, to cheer lead that, to be like, hey —

DJ Cavem:

We do it with politicians all the time. 

DAVID:

Keep doing that. Also, you kind of brought a concern of the vegan butter you know, healthy food is expensive. It’s not the only is it sometimes hard to find in certain areas that you might be you know, food deserty, but that’s just expensive, or you know, like, dude, avocados, what?

DJ Cavem:

I mean, it all depends, man you know the price of cancer is expensive, you know, I mean —

DAVID:

True.

DJ Cavem:

You know, a kidney, all that stuff that I hear people ask about when — when it’s too late. You know, I think those things are definitely expensive. So we start thinking about it from a just level, you know, how do we want to give back to the future? Are we compromising the future for young people? Are we sitting here intergenerational tyranny to — to the point where we just don’t care? You know what I mean, like, you know, those are things that I think about too, you know, as much as I want that six — pile of gas guzzling, you know, hitting switches, you know, I’m saying like, I probably sell for the Tesla.

DAVID:

The V12, you know, let’s go. The hell cat?

DJ Cavem:

You know what I am saying? Yo, I’m saying like you all wanna burn rubber, right? But like, you know, the culture is changing us to where our youth are asking for us to be more aware. And the food is definitely changing. Word on the street, there was 18,000 cows, that just went up in flames in Texas last week, and, in a barn fire. And so when we continue to perpetuate and support industries that do a lot of crazy stuff to be able to make dairy, that’s one thing, but I’m not here to hit on some — I’m not here to yuck a yum, but I’m definitely acknowledging the process that people don’t want to go through to get those yums. And so I can walk into a classroom, I can chop up a cabbage 15 ways, in front of 15 kids, and they’ll be okay, but if I walk in there with a chicken and I cut that chicken five times, they’re gonna freak out because they’re desensitized from where their food comes from. They’re not supposed to know. And that’s the problem. If we don’t want to do it in front of them, why — why feed it to them. And so those are the things I think about as being an urban farmer, being a garden counselor, or being a teacher, being an educator, like we have a responsibility — us as musicians have a responsibility. I mean people who are in the press, to document the truth, to talk about the truth.

DAVID:

You feel very qualified for truth. 

DJ Cavem:

It’s important —

DAVID:

You know, I feel — I feel a truth from you. And what’s interesting is you’re talking about it, preventative. So it’s like cancer is expensive. You’re right, it is, and preventative medicine is eating organic. 

DJ Cavem:

Yeah. 

DAVID:

Looking ahead.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, man. That’s why I became a chef, you know —

DAVID:

It’s beautiful.

DJ Cavem:

Which is why I teach people how to cook food, you know, it’s because I understand, like, I know what it’s like, you know, I was doing these decolonize the kitchen recipes for resistance culinary climate action workshops, for a couple of years and working with my mentor, Chef Brian Terry, and we’re doing some of them out at the Smithsonian in San Francisco, at the Moab Museum of African diaspora. Thinking about what that was for a lot of people is still important, you know, this idea that we can use, you know, our food to address you know, not only our ways of our health, but like how we’re empowering each other through cooperative economics, you know, by supporting those urban farmers in your community, it does give access and you know, circulates the dollars. So yeah, you know, we — were not just flowing this idea that we need to just go back to the — to the canteens and the thrift store, but we really — it’s talking about upscale. It’s time to like transform and utilize the unused — unused land, you know what I mean? Like every square footage of your house could be you know, assessed if the sunlight is gonna hit it or not, you know what I mean?

DAVID:

Yeah, we can do like vertical gardens nowadays too.

DJ Cavem:

You dig.

DAVID:

Tilapia ponds, like let’s go.

DJ Cavem:

Shout out to Jay D, all the squad I know over there, Arvada, you know at Colorado Aquaponics, and you know the people for at — Altius farms. I shot a video over there just about that life video. Tower Garden, man like you know there’s so many different ways man, you don’t have to — you don’t have to be hungry and when we communicate about how we can grow for ourselves and our friends that’s what it’s all about. You know we have to show what it looks like to — to support each other. If you’re — if your friend drops an album, go buy the album. If they drop — if they go — if they open up a restaurant, go support them. Our business is — it’s not even about the e-commerce part, you don’t always have to be online and all that jazz, you know what I am saying? Just go — go be present, go eat at your family’s house. And — and show them how dope it is you know — you know this Colorado peaches be tasty, you know what I’m saying — just be like that.

DAVID:

Paonia. 

DJ Cavem:

You know it.

DAVID:

The Paonia peaches. Awesome. Well, I feel like super inspired and I just like love your vibe. And I love your message. And you’re just, I mean, you’re so knowledgeable, you — there’s so many different ways that you can cut a cabbage, I guess. It’s really nice to hear. And before we take off, I was wondering, could you just like maybe shout out your website or any like social media that you’d like? Maybe if you have any upcoming music or workshops, anything you’d like, share to our audience.

DJ Cavem:

Yeah, thank you for having me. For more music, you can follow two things. One of them is my group, Sage and Cedar. That’s the name of our group, Sage and Cedar. We have a song that we released called, Smudge It Down. If you like, Afro indigenous hip hop, you know, I think you’ll really vibe with that. And of course, my new work, Koncrete Barden spelt with a K, at the beginning. I think you’ll really vibe with that, that’s environmental hip hop. That’s music for your garden. From there, you’ll learn a lot more about me on my website, which is chefIetef.com. That’s Chef I-E-T-E-F dot com. And I’m on Twitter, Instagram, everywhere else under I-E-T-E-F. Thanks. 

DAVID:

Beautiful. Thank you so much. It was nice speaking with you.

DJ Cavem:

Peace and love.

[MUSIC]

On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.