Episode 104. Reggie Hubbard: Essential Mindfulness and Activism

Reggie Hubbard

TRT 61:14

[MUSIC]

Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement.

 

[MUSIC]

 

David:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U Podcast. Today we have a very special guest with us in the studio. Reggie Hubbard. Reggie is currently in town speaking at Colorado University, who is our academic neighbor, running a workshop named, Good Grief: A Sangha for healing and transformation. He currently works as a yoga instructor, coach and speaker, alongside all of his contributions to his yoga work, he also is the Founder and Chief Serving Officer at Active Peace, LLC. He has graced us with his presence today to speak about his experience and knowledge of yoga and mindfulness. So welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Life is beautiful. Happy to be here.

 

David:

Awesome. So this is a very fun interview, because I had a friend of mine reach out to me and experience a talk that you had, I think it was at Omega. And she was like, you need to get this guy on your podcast. Okay, like, let’s do it. And I looked into you and your work and what you do. And on your website, it was just so in line with what Naropa — and values has. It’s just weird that you’re not speaking at Naropa.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Not yet.

 

David:

Seriously, not yet. We’ll talk later, we’ll get you there. But it’s just really beautiful to like, bring you on the podcast and just have you here. So thank you so much for showing up.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Absolutely. Delighted to be here. Thank you, Sierra.

 

David:

Yeah, Sierra. So to begin, I was curious if you could just tell us a little bit about your journey of becoming a yoga instructor and also becoming an educator in this practice. So like what inspired you to follow the yoga and teaching and maybe talk about like your — your school bring up and, you know, maybe if you were inspired before that, like how that all unfolded?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, so I majored in existential philosophy in college. So I’ve been bruiting for quite some time.  And whether it be notions of impermanence, or whether it be notions of is this really all there is, like, I’ve been holding those since I was 17. And I turn 49 in two weeks, so it’s been quite some time that I’ve been kinda like, is this it? So I didn’t really start practicing Asana or meditation until 2013, 2014. I had a blessing, I looked in the mirror one day, I was way overweight, and my — had bags under my eyes and those sorts of things. And it’s like the ancestors were like, we didn’t send you here for this. You need to figure this out. And I took a vegan cleanse, right, so April 1st is what I consider my reborn day, it was the day that I made my health, well being and all aspects sacrosanct. So a little bit more than sacred. 

 

David:

Well, how old were you when that happened? 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

38.  

David:

Okay. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

And so that was the beginning of intentional decisions about diet and exercise and prioritizing sleep. And those sorts of things. Because my background is as a political campaigner, so political campaigners have great hearts and horrible habits. And I was the poster child of both of those things, right. So I would work 18 hour days and like chain smoke for breakfast and like, have bourbon for like a brunch —

 

David:

Oh, fun.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

And curse people out for dinner, and then eat fast food at one o’clock in the morning. So not the most sustainable lifestyle. And at 38, I was essentially like, yo, you’re still here, so give thanks and do something better with your health and well being. So took a six month vegan cleanse to just be very disciplined about breaking old habits. And that revealed to me diet, sometimes scar that I had, like little patterns and loops in my head that I’m like, this isn’t even you anymore. And that begat a yoga practice, which was rooted so very, very, very long story short, in the political game, your aspiration is to be in or around the White House, especially at the level where I was working out. And despite a Yale education, despite a master’s degree, in international business, despite the ability to speak, converse in Spanish, Portuguese and blah, blah, blah. I never was able to break into the Presidential Personnel process, whatever, which in retrospect, it was as if the ancestors are like, it’s not for you. But you have the pedigree, but that’s not for you. So, one day, I went all in, a former intern colleague of mine, was in the Presidential Personnel office. And he was like, you should apply for these jobs, Reggie, and I was like I don’t trust y’all, man. You know what I mean? Because I was blacklisted from the Obama administration just on petty interpersonal politics. And I was like look, unless you get me a job as deputy this or that, or deputy assistant secretary, I’m not interested, thinking he wasn’t going to find anything —

 

David:

Knowing what you want. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, well, and also thinking that it wasn’t going to come back because they had been jerking me for years. And so he comes back, you know, you can either apply to be Deputy Assistant Secretary of International Education, or deputy Chief of Staff at Department of Education, and I was like, you know, you really weren’t supposed to come back with these answers, right. And so, I was like, I’m gonna go all in. And so I called in all these favors, because I was like, I got nothing to lose, pushed in for both got to the top two for both jobs, got neither one. So all the stuff comes up, I shouldn’t have done this, I should — I never should have believed all this other stuff. But then I was like, it didn’t work out. You have to figure something else out. And so that — I made a checklist and I was like, I’m only going to do things that lower my blood pressure, are artsy, and that I’ve never done before. So a friend of mine is like, Reggie, you should come practice yoga with me. And I was just like, heard about blood pressures, sure, artsy, and I sure as hell never done this before. In fact, the first time I was invited to do yoga, I responded, I’m not a skinny white woman, why would I do that? In this instance, you know, I go to this studio November 9th, 2014. And it was just exactly the right time and exactly the right thing to do to decompress and learn more about my body and those sorts of things. And eventually moved to Colorado, moved to Denver after not getting these jobs, because going for those jobs and not getting them is like asking someone to marry you. And they say no. So I’m like, I can’t — I can’t be in town anymore, man, I gotta go. So moved to Denver, to work for a nonprofit. And very long story short, it was a dream job, I had done some contract work with them or something before thinking it was gonna be a great opportunity. And it was a dream job in the great way for the first six days. On day six, it turned into a nightmare. White woman came in was like, I feel undermined by Reggie. And so that begot a staff meeting. 

 

David:

Oh, okay.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, day six. So that’d begot a staff meeting where the CEO or the president of the nonprofit who recruited me was like, yeah, we don’t really know why we hired you, you’re kind of a waste of headcount, and all these other things. So she’s saying in this in my face, and I’m like — I’m like, and I’m from near Baltimore, Maryland, we don’t get down like that. You can’t be just talking outside your face and be like that. But if I cursed her out, might have been fired.

 

David:

Yeah. Well, she’s explaining her feelings. You’re like, give me the facts. Like, what am I actually doing? 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right.

 

David:

How you feel, I guess, is kind of important. But like, you know —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, never got that. And it just became increasingly horrible. So luckily, there was a studio in Denver called Kindness Yoga. That was right near my house. I was living in Cherry Creek, which is hilarious because why is my black ass was living in Cherry Creek, but lived there and went to the studio at six o’clock in the morning, on February 10th, 2015. Never forget it. And this woman, lovely woman is like, you know, we have this special 30 days for $30. And I was like, I got a hundred, what will this get me. I’m gonna be here for a while and became like a yoga gym rat, right. So winter, Asana in the morning at six, and usually some variant of sunset or yen or some other practice at night, twice a day, six, seven days a week, because the job just got worse and worse and worse. So bad that they fired me via text message 10 months later. And they asked me for an exit interview. And this is where I was like, yo, this yoga thing is magical. Because they asked me for the exit interview and this grace just flowed out. I was just like, y’all no good and hell well —

 

David:

You want to hear how I feel?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, well, no actually it was different. It was like, y’all no good in hell, well, we don’t need an exit interview. We don’t really have much to say, but I want to thank you. And they’re like, for what? I want to thank you for how poorly you treated beam, because you gave me wisdom. And that wisdom has manifested in the grace that I’m showing before you now. And then I walked out and then I called my mom and my aunt and was like, this yoga thing is magical. This meditation thing is magical, because I went from wanting to curse this lady out to thanking them for firing me because it gave me wisdom. So at that point, I was — I was like, 39 or 40, 41. So it was early. I was 41 actually. Pushed — I was like, I’m in and joined the Bernie Sanders campaign after that, and was able basically to merge my yogic and meditative practice, with my social activism in one seamless hole. And — and rather than being either or, both and.

 

David:

Okay, that’s such a beautiful journey and what’s interesting to me is like, you started with existential philosophy, and then you kind of like went to politics, and then you went to yoga. So you’re having mental, to political to physical, you’re having this experience where you’re — you’re hitting like different realms of how we show up in reality, you know, with our minds, with our body, and with our relations with each other. And I just think that’s beautiful. So you even mentioned you went to Yale? Like, okay.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

(Laughs). First generation too.

 

David:

Dang, ok. That’s awesome. So you live in Denver?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Gail Simmons:

I live in Maryland. 

 

David:

Okay, you’re in — you’re in Baltimore. Okay, so —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yep. 

 

David:

You’re currently in town to speak to the CU and the Boulder community and your workshop today is based upon dealing with grief and discovering healing within. I’m curious if you could tell us a bit more about your workshop and like how you lead those types of spaces?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah. So grief is an experience that we all have in common that no one talks about. And it’s an unavoidable part of the human experience that everyone wishes would go away. And so that cognitive dissonance leads to societal ill, right, there are many of us who are carrying burdens that if we have never even considered what it would look like to talk about it. And so what I do is introduce the healing power of sangha, talking about a really thorny issue. And I usually — I model it because I’m far from a grief expert, I only started teaching about grief when my cousin died suddenly, about two years ago, he died of a pulmonary embolism at 44, and was just out. And it really forced me to confront all these notions that I had about life, you know I’d seen people die before. I’ve been in like some really tricky situation — you know, I’ve been — or I’ve had near death experiences. So — and I was an existential philosophy major. So it’s not that — I know this thing ends, right. And so I’m always very purposeful about it. But when your younger cousin, who was your central soul brother is just out, it just — it just rocked me. And it set forth a healing journey that has now been able to impact thousands of people, right? So very long story short, I model because let’s just be honest, no one expects a black dude who looks like a football player to vulnerably talk about the loss of his cousin, and do so in a way that talks about impermanence, compassion, and the curative power of community as opposed to ramping isolationism, which leads to social ill, right. So I use mute(?) and like sound. So I’m using gongs, conversation, physical movement, and just inviting people to talk about what they’re grieving. So I’ll lead by saying, the grief I’m bringing to today’s circle is for my cousin who passed away for a society that seems to have lost all notions of civility, for blah, blah, blah, right, and then open it up for people to discuss. I taught this — this past weekend at Bhakti Fest in Joshua Tree, and there were 135 people there. And it was just so powerful in a way that I didn’t expect. Because just — I’m just going to be honest, I didn’t expect white bodied people to be so emotive.

 

David:

And that’s always beautiful when you have that type of event where the crowd surprises you. And you’re like — you’re like, damn, my work is hitting hard right now. This feels good. Like, I’m doing something powerful. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah. 

 

David:

And so when you have shows like that, you’re like, I’m know I’m doing something big here. And so it’s always good to do that.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

It shocked me — I was like, I mean, because I’ve been — I’ve taught this class, it’s probably the seventh — seventh or eighth time, I’d say, it’s becoming a bit of a franchise in service to other people. I taught it before in Lexington, Virginia. And I would encourage people to — because in traditional Chinese medicine, grief is associated with lung Qi. And so I would tell people to breathe, breathe deep. Like sometimes, like if you need to, and I didn’t — no one would respond like in Lexington. Like I’d be like, exhale — and people would be like, but —

 

David:

Don’t be shy.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, for real, right, letting go. 

 

David:

Come on.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right. You can do it louder. You know?

 

David:

Yeah. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

But it just wasn’t done, right? I love being proven wrong as a teacher too, like, I’m going in thinking it’s gonna go a certain way. And it just blows my mind. These people 10 seconds into it, we’re like, oh, ah, like, all this stuff. I’m like, uh oh, I guess we’re —

 

David:

Let’s go.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Seriously, we’re extending this, and it went on for probably about two and a half minutes of just that beautiful catharsis, of things that have been long suppressed, where people one, felt comfortable enough to do it, had the space to do it, and weren’t by themselves. And so the cumulative impact of that was only amplified by the fact that once everyone got everything out, and we did like some physical Asana, I put them to sleep with like gongs and like sound bowls and stuff.

 

David:

Nice. Okay, yeah, we love the gong, all the sacred healing frequencies and all that. So you’re here facilitating a grief space at your workshop, and what are some of your go to practices for holding such a space? You kind of just mentioned gongs and Asanas. And then you know, it seems like you have like a loud part, you have like a discussion part and then you have like a calming part. Can you speak about that a bit more? What type of setting do you — are trying to create when you’re doing that? And do you have a special way of conducting the workshop with certain breath work, meditate — like do you do certain types of breath work other than just breathing from your lungs? Like is there a practice that you do or visualizations?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, it tends to depend on the audience right and tend to depend on the vibe. So I’ve done Viloma Pranayama. So, (breath out) three and one, one out. 

 

David:

And that’s like through the nose and then out through the mouth? 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Gail Simmons:

Mmmhmm

 

David:

Okay.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Just to get — I mean because I know from my experience too, like sometimes grief just has me super tight. And so I force people to — not force, but just a lot — give people the invitation to open up, breathe deep and just get the cathartic experience of the body going. And once breath is going, I also encourage, in elegant speech —

 

David:

What do you mean by that?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Sometimes when you’re like, so how are you feeling right now? You say, well, I’m particularly grieving the loss of — you know, you can’t — it’s not — 

 

David:

I feel like shit. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, or you may not even have those words, right? So like, it’s permission to speak freely, either, like, I feel fucking terrible, or, you know, sometimes —

 

David:

Or, I don’t know.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right. And it’s okay to not know, because sometimes grief doesn’t have words, sometimes it’s caught in the body, and you got to shake it out. Sometimes it’s non speech, but still verbal, right? It’s not only a head, philosophical experience, right, there are different ways that grief and the biochemical processes of grief manifests in the human experience. So giving people different avenues you know, I’m a learner, that is, I learned through words and sound. You put data and spreadsheets in front of me, I will lose — lose interest quickly. Right, so it’s also from a pedagogical perspective to be nerdy like that. The words may not get you, but the sound might get you, it just offers different opportunities for people to experience pathways to this peace and release. 

 

David:

Yeah, I love that too. Because the having the multi dimensional ways of learning, someone might sit in your practice for like, 10 minutes, and they’re like, ah, I don’t know if this — oh, wait, we’re moving on to the sound. Here we go. This is my jam right here. So I love that. So being one who facilitates these types of spaces, I’m curious how important it is for people to confront and deal with their grief? And also, do you find that being in a public space, dealing with grief is different than trying to do it by yourself? Because that’s sensitive. You know, there’s availabilities of be insecure, or you don’t know how to say how you feel, because feelings are complex and dynamic. And there’s like a spectrum of them. And you can be feeling a lot, there’s like a lot of things going on —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

At the same time, for sure.

 

David:

Constantly — I always find that like, I don’t want to trouble people with my crap.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right. 

 

David:

So I tend to hold it back and try to deal with it myself. And I don’t know if that’s the best idea. REGGIE LAUGHS. But you know, it’s like, how important it is to be in community, and I don’t think most people like oh, man, I’m grieving, I’m gonna go call 10 of my friends. REGGIE LAUGHS. You know, it’s not like you — you just like show up —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right.

 

David:

Usually have that like one friend, you can call, and they’ll hold that space for you or whatever. But what have you found?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

The beauty of this paradigm is one that’s rooted in the ancient wisdom of community, right? So it’s not — every one of us is going through something. We live in a world that encourages individualism and hyper focus on — on ego, as opposed to like communal — communal care. And so what I’ve noticed is that once people feel as though they’re not alone, they’ll say just about anything, right?

 

David:

I guess, if you’re creating a container that they actually do feel safe in, because I’m not going to tell you my heart, if I like, I don’t know you.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right. But there’s an element that happens when people are — when heart start to open, when tears start to flow, when those things start to happen, that you realize that the separation that you thought was true is not true. And that you’re actually connected to people in ways that you may not be aware of. And you may not be consciously aware of it, but you’re subconsciously and spiritually aware of it. And so in that subconscious and spiritual awareness, it may because I get this all the time. Like, I never thought I’d be speaking but ahhhh, right, and so like, it gives you the opportunity to bear witness to other people’s humanity. And in so doing know that you’re not alone.

 

David:

I love that idea of subconscious connection. Because that feels more authentic than how we actually run our daily lives and how we connect, because there’s always this front of like, I don’t know, you, I feel reserved, I might not tell you everything. I might change my expression, you know, I’m feeling sad, but I’m in public, so I’m gonna, you know, try and —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

I feel great.

 

David:

I’m trying to show up and it’s just like, it’s okay. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Everything’s awesome. 

 

David:

I feel like crap. It’s okay to feel like that.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Absolutely, and it’s better to tell somebody about it, so then if they’re aware, they can treat you with the care that you deserve, as opposed to just, oh, I’m fine but you’re not.

 

David:

Yeah, I guess part of the healing process is admitting and willing to show up for the admitting to someone or to yourself, you know?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

I have an interesting story about that. So and I talked about this in the grief Sangha as well. Our society also puts a shelf life on grief when incidents —

 

David:

Oh really?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, well, I mean, I’ll give you an example. So when my cousin died, I was very public about it and it launched a — not only this series, but just me being very open about grief and loss. And then someone came up to me at one point, 6 months after Corey passed, and was like, oh, you’re still grieving that? And I’m like, yeah, that motherfucker is still dead, of course, I’m still grieving it. You kidding me? Right, and so what that did was two things, it showed me that people — it’s not necessarily intentional, but I think it’s more societal and cultural, they want you to be over it because they don’t want to feel put out. And by proxy, people feel as though they don’t want to put on other people. But, you know, it also, in my case, gave me the guts to be like, yeah, I’m still grieving. He’s still dead. What’s your problem? As opposed to being like, I’m sorry for mentioning it to you. I’m not sorry for mentioning it to you, I’m sorry that you don’t have compassion, to hold my grief, like with care and get that out of here.

 

David:

I honestly love that you said that, because that’s a term I’ve never heard before. But like, right when you said it, I was like, yup, that — that’s something that does exist. There’s — there is an assumption of when you should be getting over something. And I guess like, if your animal died, if your parents died, if like —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

You’re gonna never get over it —

 

David:

Car accident like —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

You never get over it. 

 

David:

Who knows? Who is to tell you how long that you need to take. It’s almost like a judgment of how much you love something. Of course it hurts, it’s always gonna hurt. But like, I wonder if they feel impacted? Because he’s like, oh, you’re just like — you’re always bringing it down? Well, you’re always bringing me down, because you’re not letting me have my process. Like, my process is probably not as long as you think it is. But here I am. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

I’ll give you another example where someone was like, so Brittney Griner did, she was in Russian prison, like last year, and a former student of mine was like, Reggie, because when she came back home, she was — here, there’s a picture of her and Kamala Harris, and I put it on my social media story. One of my students was just like, I had more respect for you, I thought that you wouldn’t value criminals, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, all this other stuff. And I was like, first of all, aren’t you from a former Soviet country, you trust about Vladimir Putin like that? You know, so you reppin’ Vlad Putin like that, number one. And number two, I hope you never have an experience where you’re in a gulag for nine months. And if you do, I hope no one treats you the way that you just talked about Brittany to me, crickets. He didn’t say anything, because I was just like, no nice try. That’s not acceptable for me. And I rarely take the seat of a teacher like that. But I was just like, he was one of my students. I was just — I taught you better than that, man.

 

David:

Yeah, I think the mind can like really run a course where you’re thinking like, oh, that was wrong. And then you just pile yourself into what’s wrong. And then you show up to someone and they give you a different perspective and you’re like, oh, crap, maybe that was not as well thought out as I thought it was. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah. And you know, social media doesn’t necessarily encourage contemplative response. Right, it’s usually —

 

David:

Really?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yes, shocker, shocker, you didn’t know that.

 

David:

I didn’t, what? All right, this beautiful. So I’ve noticed we come across this term that is a creation of what’s called sacred space. And to have a space in which is sacred is to also know that some spaces are not sacred, and to also realize, you know, some spaces are just neutral, or whatever they are. But what I’m curious about is, what is it about that type of space, the sacred space that makes it sacred? And how do we go about creating such spaces to have our grief and create a sangha, and to have like, teacher, student positions where, you know, the student can teach the teacher and the teacher can teach the student, like, how do we, because I feel like this space is pretty sacred. We’re very open, I literally just met you, like 30 minutes ago, and I feel really good about this. And you know, you know, some of my brothers from Baltimore. And so it’s like this instant connection. I am just curious, like, how does one go about creating a space in which is sacred?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

I’m thankful for the question, because that is, I’ve never been asked to articulate something that comes natively to me. So I appreciate that for the exercise that’s about to transpire. So I just try as a teacher, I try and model radical vulnerability, compassion. And it’s not that I know more than someone, it’s that I have more experience in facilitating the space than someone. So it’s incumbent upon me as a teacher, not to Lord my knowledge over you, but to create conditions for your knowledge to arise. And if your knowledge arises, and other people’s knowledge arises, then we teach each other. And so my job is to facilitate for wisdom to arise, so that we’re all benefited from mutual sharing, as opposed to like being and I’m also a grassroots organizer, right. So like, the solutions come from the people, the organizer just facilitates the people coming together. So my teaching style is heavily influenced by my political work in that my job is just to create conditions for thriving, not be like I know everything, you know nothing, and please like take feverish notes to get hand cramps because this is what comes — that’s gross to me. I have — I have no place for that. 

 

David:

We all know what those hand cramps feel like too. Especially our age. We didn’t have no —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

No no, no, man number two pencils.

 

David:

So — so you said something about promoting — like you’re promoting the wisdom of others. And this is where I find the authentic connection is — is not someone telling you what it is or what it is — and this is kind of how I conduct the podcast is more of a, I don’t know anything, and I’m here to learn, and I’m here to explore your experience and your knowledge and your wisdom. And — and that’s kind of where I feel like the true nature of the good stuff, the nectar comes out, because there’s some intelligent people that may be a student. And they give you a beautiful perspective and a nice lesson, you’re like, wow, that’s great. Let’s integrate that into our practice now, or our community and I’ve always found that super beneficial. 

 

David:

Okay, so you mentioned a couple times politics, and you got yoga, so I’m kind of excited for this part in school. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Let’s go.

 

David:

When I was reading about you, on your website, I came across something I thought was very interesting. You’ve worked in politics, and you also are someone who has been campaigning and organizing. And you expressed a little bit about that already. I thought this was pretty interesting. Because when we think about mindfulness, we tend to not associate politics with it. I’m curious how these two practices intersect each other for you, and how they show up in your life? Like, how do you be mindful in politics, especially nowadays, because the riff is so vast —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

The perceived rift.

 

David:

We need another, something out there, being represented, but also being mindful? It feels hard to try and find that. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, so for me, if — it’s not an absolute rift, it’s a perceived rift. Right, it’s a riff that’s been predicated by predatory forces, to maintain the status quo that is extractive and destructive, right. And so long as we buy into the, oh, I can’t deal with this, someone else will deal with it, then those forces will continue to do the work that they’re doing, of dividing communities, exploiting people economically and spiritually and those sorts of things. So, for me, mindfulness is about creating loving awareness in the heart, and compassion, the rising from there, and stillness in the mind to be aware of what’s truly going on. And then once you perceive what’s truly going on, what wise action can you take to alleviate suffering? You know, most people see what’s truly going on. I don’t want to deal with this, la, la, la. That’s not mindfulness.

 

David:

It doesn’t go away. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

It doesn’t go away. Right? And, you know, and it’s also delusion — 

 

David:

And heartless, probably too?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right, sure. So you seeing what’s happening, and then being like, am I right. Like, there are practices that allow you to titrate being able to bear witness to the full world, right? And I’m also not saying that what I do is for everybody, you know, since I’ve been asked to stand in like ridiculously, seemingly intractable situations, and just be open in the heart, and try and bridge that divide, you know, impeachment of Donald Trump was one of them. I recently had to deconflict a protest at Net Roots Nation in Chicago, between the youth Pa — Palestinian youth activist, and a member of Congress where they wanted to co-op the program out of anger, rightful anger, about how Palestinians were being treated. And they were taking it out on a member of Congress who was actually one of their allies. And so it was so rapid emotion that I had to be that mindful, peaceful present space to bridge that. Right, so the moderators didn’t want to deal with it. The activist wanted to be heard. That’s — that’s far apart. Right? 

 

David:

…like super sensitive, anything could be triggering to that sort of space.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

So I’m there in dress whites, because I was doing spiritual work, barefoot with a gong in my left hand, and my hand on my right heart — my right hand on my heart. They went from screaming at the member of Congress to screaming at me. And I at one point, I — this — after this point, I don’t remember what happened. But I was like, right, so basically, I was like, give me all your hate. Because this love I’m about to throw on you is going to derail everything. And so went like that, got present, and started just deconflicting, they were — just so what he always demands? They’re like, sign the bill now. Logistically impossible, Congress isn’t in session, what’s your next demand? And they just kept saying stuff and I was just locked in and present, I was just like, so we — you have been heard. We want a meeting, her chief of staff is over there. Go talk to him. What is this truly about? And so I was really — I was like I honor your protest, I’m a Hell raiser too, I was like but if you are seeking to disrupt the peace of other people, that’s a net negative. And as a peaceful practitioner, I cannot abide by that. Right, and I can’t abide by your — through your harm, causing harm to other people. And it took 20 minutes, but we were able to wind everything down. And to the people who are silent in the crowd. I was like, so to those of you who paid good money to be here, if you’ve had enough of them and is well within your agency to politely ask them to stop. You abdicating your agency as an activist, I can’t bear witness to that either. Right, you have a voice. You — and there are more people who want to hear what’s happening on stage, and then don’t. So if you’re silent, that means you’re complicit, and if you’re complicit, then that means you’re not rooted in peace.

 

David:

Ooh, interesting. While you were saying that I just thought of something. Anger isn’t always rooted in solutions. It’s more rooted in emotions, as someone who’s spiritual and yoga based and mindful, but like, went to yo, for philosophy of politics, you know how government works, you know how politics work, you know how the judicial system functions. And you also know how the emotions occur and arise. And it’s very factual, but I loved how you were also standing there just receiving, there’s this Buddhist quote, I really love, where it’s like, when someone tries to defeat you, just receive the defeat and offer them the victory. Here you go. And that’s what it feels like you did is I’m not trying to fight you, I’m just going to show you a different type of energy that promotes the thing that we all want. Not the like hatred, you know, misunderstanding. It’s like, I’ll be factual with you, because I know the system. But let’s have the conversation. Let’s not interrupt, because something that person is probably saying might resonate with you, and, or you might need to know that.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right? And, or they may have a bill in their committee that they will veto because you treated them poorly. Right, like all politics is not personal, right? 

 

David:

Don’t say that. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

It is, whatever. Like, they’re human being — 

 

David:

I don’t want it to be.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Well —

 

David:

It needs to be mad community. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah. But personal, like — but personal can be community. And if it’s rooted in as, again, I agreed with them on their issue, I just disagreed on their tactics. And that’s what I was trying to say to them was just like, you are well within your right to be angry, and within your right to protest. And if the aim of this is to disrupt the program, that is not getting you more freedom in Palestine, and it’s actually ruining the reputation of the organization of which I’m a member of the board. So in fidelity to my board service. I can’t watch this. 

 

David:

Truth hurts sometimes. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah.

 

David:

But like hurts good. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah. 

 

David:

If you’re willing to get hurt —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right, you can grow. You know what I mean?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right, it’s almost essential, though.

 

David:

True. Yeah. And honestly, some of the most advanced emotional growth or spiritual growth I’ve had is hurt before it’s happened, like, it’s been very unfavorable situations that I’ve gone through. And I’m like, I learned the most at those moments.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Like I told you earlier, that horrible job where they treated me like crap for the better part of a year sent me on the course that I’m like —

 

David:

And you offered them the defeat, you know what I mean, you were humble. And you took it and you know, your worth, and you were just like, you know, what, thank you for that experience. It wasn’t favorable. REGGIE LAUGHS. But I’m bowing out.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah.

 

David:

I’m done. You know, like peace out. I got some bigger things to do. And thank you for showing me how powerful I actually am. And so that’s beautiful. All right, so with this type of work, I also noticed you facilitate yoga classes and instructions to Congress and congressional staff. I’ve been waiting for this one. I found this to be very progressive and kind of cool. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

It’s Avant Garde for sure. 

 

David:

I’m curious — I’m curious what your experience is when teaching yoga to Congress members? And also, are there certain types of political ideologies that tend to lean more towards doing yoga compared to others? I don’t want to stereotype but I see Republicans maybe not doing as much yoga and mindfulness —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Maybe — maybe more hot yoga —

 

David:

Maybe like —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

The physic — the physical practice.

 

David:

The Tea Party, maybe they do yoga more often? I don’t know. So from your experience, what do you think?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Well, so I took teacher training in 2018 and 2019. So when we flipped the house from Republican to Democrat, and the squad came in, and then during impeachment, were 203 — 300 hours. So all throughout the Trump era, I probably took about a thousand hours of yoga teacher training and mindfulness training, while having a full time job and like so at the heart of the resistance against fascism and stuff. So those things were inextricably linked from the beginning. Right, like so when I took the job in the resistance, I was like, I need something to anchor me in something outside of this. And so that’s what teaching became. What I didn’t understand necessarily, is that as all these things were becoming embodied, people were noticing, right, so Ayanna Presley, a member of Congress from Massachusetts, uh, she was one of the first people who were like, you’re a healer. And I was like, I ain’t no healer. You know, or even just like — I didn’t, you know, I think I’m an activist that is taking this training to keep me from sma — you know, like, you know, and she’s like, nah, but your presence is medicinal. Your — your piece is medicinal. And she’s the first member who asked me to teach her staff. So in October 2019, I taught her staff, then when the pandemic hit Rashida Tlaib and her staff called me, Deb Holland and her staff called me, and I used virtual yoga and meditation as an opportunity to keep the communities together during a really stressful time. Right? So it was a community building exercise, but also that was alleviating stress in the body. Because in the early days of the pandemic, everything was crazy town, you know, and everything was just like the Trump era didn’t help, because they didn’t really have a plan. Other than, like, we’re gonna open in two weeks, whatever. And there was just such mortal fear of breathing someone else’s air and like we’re forced in isolation. Those became opportunities for people to release in community. And that kind of helped me be of service because that’s all I really ever wanted to do when I started teaching. I wasn’t like, I’m going to be a name, or I’m going to be like, well known or those sorts of things. I just wanted to serve the people before me. And it ended up being members of Congress, like the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the DNC, I taught meditation to the DNC, two and a half weeks ago, at their invitation. they were like, we’re having a DEI training, and you know, we’re seeing a lot of stuff where black folks or LGBTQ, all these affinity groups feel under threaten and duress. And we know that you could hold this container with ridiculous compassion, can you teach? I’m like, sure. And you know, I got kind of emotional because like to now be sought after, after being one of the only people for five to six years means that I had some impact on the culture.

 

David:

Yeah. And it doesn’t seem as though this was the direction in which you wanted to choose. REGGIE LAUGHS. Now, like here’s spirit laying — laying on the ground, he’s like I told you, so.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, for sure. 

 

David:

You know, and honestly, thank you for showing up. Because there’s communities that you’re finding that probably didn’t exist that you’re creating, you’re inviting to happen. And now you’re giving mindfulness practice to people that probably should have it. Everybody in politics probably should have like a meditation thing. Practice going —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Or at least a bell or something, right? Something to like, break their — break the trance. Yep.

 

David:

Oh, that’d be great, little mindful bell before you like do voting of a bill or something. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Can you imagine that? I mean, it seems simple, but why not?

 

David:

Honestly, and it takes like a second or two, I don’t know, just like a congressional rolling oh…

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Can you imagine that? Especially for — like, let me not get started, but yeah,

 

David:

They prob — some countries probably would make fun of us. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Something has gotta give.

 

David:

United we stand.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Seriously.

 

David:

Ohm! I own this place. REGGIE LAUGHS, All right. So with your experience of working and teaching with Congress members yoga, I’m wondering how a body and mindful practice helps enhance their ability to do their job of working in Congress and interfacing with party members and all that. Have you heard or seen any advancements while working with them? Have any of the people that you taught, come up to you and be like, oh my God, I just had this new revelation. And you know, your teachings have helped me or like the way I think now is a little bit more holistic, and I’m here in service instead of I’m against that party, or this party, like they want to work together. Anything, that —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

The big — the biggest thing that these practices offer people in either as activist or as elected is a break, right? Their cadence of political culture is incessant. It’s tweet after tweet after this. After that, it’s go go, go, go, go, go go. And people aren’t aware of the degradation of their energy and their mind by consistently going. You think that you’re doing yourself a service by rushing, when in fact, you’re making a poor choice due to lack of energy and the energy that you don’t have you have to expand to correct the mistake that you probably shouldn’t have made in the first place. Right? So creating conditions for people to take a pause to make better decisions is almost incalculable. But people have told me that all the time, like, I now feel reset in my mind, and I can make better decisions. You’re welcome. 

 

David:

Well —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, seriously, Ayanna Pressley told me that — we were in a meeting one time and she’s like, brother, let me tell you something about you. And I was like, what’s that sis? She was like, your peace is so powerful, it impacts the blood pressure, the room drops when you enter it. And I’m like —

 

David:

It’s one of your check marks.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right.

 

David:

But you’re doing it to other people. REGGIE LAUGHS. You’re like, checking marking other people — look at you.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Seriously, right. So the impact of my — my vibe is teaching in ways that I don’t even know — I mean, because I — I’m just present and trying to be of service, I’m not like walking and necessarily being, oh, I’m gonna go in and — like it’s not even like that. It’s like so, okay, this has happened here. This is happening here. How can I serve this in a way that’s beneficial to all people and not detrimental to myself? So those are some of the feedback I get. Or usually before ex — I’ve been asked to come in and do like song or sound or meditation ahead of executive planning retreats. So as organizations like NARAL(?) or other folks, as they start to like allocate budget and make strategic decisions like I’ve done meditations with them before they make these big decisions. So it’s not rush, rush, rush — that it can be as resourced and intentional as possible.

 

David:

Money does get wasted a lot. So it’s probably good to have a approach in which to use it usefully?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah. 

 

David:

So interesting.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Well, and also just to be present as you make the decision, right, just because what happens also in activist spaces where I teach as well is that people make strategic mistakes, because they think things are different than they actually are. Just because you did something for 10 years straight doesn’t mean you continue to do it. Circumstances change so radically, that those who continue to do defunct practices lose.

 

David:

Yeah. And I think sometimes it’s hard to realize if something is defunct, you know, like, people don’t like to admit their wrongs.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Well, and you definitely won’t do it if you’re not present. But if you’re present, you take a breath, you have these space, you’re just kind of like, it doesn’t really feel right anymore, right. Like, it just allows for different things to arise, so you can see things as they truly are. And in that clarity, you can make — you can take wise action, as opposed to preponderance of like bad decisions.

 

David:

It feels very one dimensional too, to be like, so I’m this and that’s how I roll and —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Forever — 

 

David:

For my constituents, it’s like maybe try something else on. If I actually thought about the opposition’s ideologies, and I just like thought about it, why they’re doing that — maybe —maybe there is some truth in a little bit of that. But I still hold on to this and — and then that’s where the collaboration can start happening.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

As a political strategist, people used to hate when I’d say this, but it’s true, I used to study Karl Rove. I don’t agree with anything, Karl Rove stands for him. But the way he was able to enact message discipline, about culture war stuff, I was like, this is wisdom. You know what I mean? Like say if I, as a person of a different, not only political belief, but have a different spiritual cadence, if I can have his level of ruthless focus on compassionate stuff, what a great world it would be. 

 

David:

Ruthless focus.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, on compassion. 

 

David:

All right.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

I said that recently, where someone was like don’t mean ruthless? I was like, I absolutely do. 

 

David:

I said, what I said.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, absolutely. Like, what do you mean? I was just like laser focus, what happens in progressive communities, like, we take into account everybody’s feelings, which isn’t a bad thing. But like, if there is a viewpoint, that meet existential philosophy, so if your worldview nullifies my existence, I reject that.

 

David:

Yeah, I think of that as a prescription of lens in which you live through your heart. And so it’s like, you need to clean that lens, you know, like, you get a little fingerprint on your lens, and now you’re not looking as true as you can. I think in the Buddhist world, too, it’s like, we’re all born with innate goodness. And like, when you really get down to the nitty gritty stuff, you want everybody to win, you want everyone to succeed. So if we are responding from our emotions, it’s not as skillful as it can be, because we’re not taking in perspective of others, and you don’t want to know anyone else’s existence. Because like, that’s no existence. I want to exist. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

No, no, no. 

 

David:

Also, I love the thing about like, just your presence. I’m feeling it, I’m feeling the presence. I’m just so light right now. But like your presence is bringing people’s blood pressure down. And that is not something that is just given to people or whatever, you know, like that’s a practice. That’s a way of being, I feel like that’s like a very teacher moment is I’ve had some very awesome mentors in my life and still do and the way they are and be, is admirable. And so having that emotional stability, and also willingness to be humbled is super important. And I think people need to see that and you’re just like a representation of such things.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, I mean, the other thing, too, you mentioned earlier about yoga teacher, meditation teacher, I don’t really like that terminology, especially in western world, I’m not a yoga teacher, I’m a yogi.

 

David:

Okay.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

That teaches — like so I do physical practice, daily, I do sound and meditation practice daily, and as bases from my lived experience, and then from that discipline, practice, things emerge that I share, but in yoga teacher land, that brings to mind the thing that kept me from the practice in the first place. So, you know, skinny white chicks talking in high voices, about appropriate culture, you know what I mean? Like that doesn’t have — 

 

David:

What do you do about that? 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right. Right.

 

David:

I also notice you do some other work with like activism and anti-racism over your career. It seems as though having a practice in politics and yoga would be a unique and potent relationship while working with these other topics. And I’m wondering, could you speak upon how these two practices enhance your ability to approach the work of the like sensitive space of anti-racism and also the activism? Do you have any techniques you come across of like how to present the information in groups or to yourself, or I’m sure you’ve been in situations where you’re like, that’s fucked up. And it’s like, oh, wait, I’m the guy that’s like needing to hold that space. How do you do such a thing?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

So when you get older, you begin to realize that a lot of the nonsensical stuff, at least in my lived experience matters. So me growing up in the burbs matters, because like I knew how I became conversant with all cultures. Like me being first gen at Yale matters because I never seen that much wealth before, and New England is kind of a cold culture. But I graduated, gave me grit. It gave me the ability to access one of the oldest networks in the world, right? And it actually helped my politics to be in these experiences, because I’m comfortable around everybody. You know, like, I was a janitor, and I’ve been in the room with presidents and diplomats, right? And so like, that lived experience is helpful. So in the context of yoga and politics, I try and remember that at essence, we’re all just people trying to do good and holding that space allows for I’ll give you a perfect example. So I’m doing black male healing retreats at Kripalu. So Kripalu has a legacy of not being terribly diverse. 

 

David:

What is that?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

So Kripalu is a —

 

David:

It’s a place?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

It’s a retreat center in Western Massachusetts, created by Swami Kripalu and now an organization and school, an Ayurveda school and yoga teaching school. And holding this space for black men, working with a white institution is like the revolution, right. So like, Kripalu is helping me pay for folks, because they fund scholarships for people to come to Kripalu for me to teach them, for black identifying men to heal, but also for white people to see it and get images of black men in their head that are not I’m trying to take your purse, or are these sorts of things. So it’s helping people who look like me to realize that not everyone who doesn’t look like them is out to get them, one. Two, it’s showing white bodied folks that the liberation of all beings is in your best interest. Right, so —

 

David:

Duh.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah.

 

David:

Like, come on. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

But people and you know as well as I do in these mindful spaces are like, it’s all about me that — no, it’s not. So — 

 

David:

That’s not doing it right. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Not at all. And so seeing black joy unleashed in white institutions helps both people. So I operate that middle ground space. So how do I protect my retreat attendees, and interface with white awkwardness? And, like, have a relationship with the administrators of Kripalu, and with the people that I’m trying to bring, right, and so being in all these different places in different ways, opens you up to — not even compromise, but you — I state the work I’m trying to do. And if something’s not in alignment, I speak it. And I also — this is controversial to some extent, but not — it’s not for every person of color to be in these intersectional spaces.

 

David:

Yeah, I’ve heard that too. It’s like, it’s not my responsibility to make your white awkwardness feel okay with this. I don’t care, like I want to go play music, I want to go like hang out, I want to do yoga, I don’t need to make sure that your feelings are okay, because my feelings have been not seen for a long time.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

And conversely, it’s also not the job of a teacher to do harm, right. And so if the harm is in service to alleviating delusion, and it’s done with care, great. But I’m here to say that had I not done the hard work of confronting my demons, unearthing them and then sharing them, I wouldn’t be able to hold intersectional space, right? So I can make — I can be that bridge, because I’m the angry black guy that has done deep healing to be able to talk to black and white people.

 

David:

Interesting. That is quite a space to be held. That — it sounds like blood pressure in the room just going straight down for everybody. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

And it creates conditions for people to have awkward conversations,

 

David:

But in a space that it’s okay to — 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Absolutely —

 

David:

Yeah, because that’s —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

And they won’t be canceled. And if someone says something that’s — it’s almost as there’s a lot of trust when I leave those spaces, right? Because if someone says something wild, I’ll be like, is that — did you mean this or this? So it’s my job to like, tease out the awkwardness so that people feel comfortable, but also to tell folks like someone may say something that might trigger you please use your tools. One of them being like breath work, another of them being like tactile pressure and noticing where tightness is arising in the body and being of service to alleviating that. Or maybe you need to leave the room. But leaving room in a way that’s of service to your needs, not to make a spectacle. 

 

David:

Yeah, that’s not going to solve anything.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right, you acting out, is causing harm. And I know this from my lived experience, too, just because I felt harm was caused to me and may not always have been the case, it was just my perception.

 

David:

Yeah, and so you know, our perceptions can be wrong sometimes. So we — we just need to have those tools to figure it out on our own. We’re adults here, come on, and we want everyone to win. I mean, we sort of had a little dialogue about this before we even came down to the studio. But I had another podcast that I ran with some friends of mine. The podcast was called, Look Again podcast, and I actually met them on this podcast and they’re from the Holistic Life Foundation, they live in Baltimore, Ali, Atman and Andres, and, you know, I said something about that. And you’re like, they’re my homies. And I’m like, they’re my homies too. We just like sent photo and like, they keep texting me and stuff. This moment where I’m like, whoa, like, and it just feels so small. And it’s so cool that you know them. And I felt like we almost knew each other a little bit more. And you know, you happened to grow up in Baltimore, I’ve been to Baltimore many times with them. And it’s like, quite different than Boulder. REGGIE LAUGHS. You know, and like, I actually really like it there. I love the environment, the history, there’s like so many —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

It’s very honest.

 

David:

There’s so many cool things just going on. And like when — especially when Ali and Atman, and Andres are like bringing me around to their friends and stuff. It’s just like really cool to be in a different community, and environment. So on that podcast, we leaned into people of color and mindfulness communities and Sanghas and stuff, and you’ve sort of spoken about this a couple times. And they have over time told me stories of not really being seen in their communities and or in some of the like, yoga settings. And I’m wondering, how do you deal with these experiences of trying to be inclusive and diverse. And as a white body person, I feel like I’ve had a unique experience because I actually ran a podcast with three other dudes who are teaching inner city kids, meditation, mindfulness, and we talk to a lot of people of color, about mindfulness. And I don’t think a lot of white body people tend to like go into that subject. And I would like to assume I don’t have that white awkwardness, or at least yet, you know, maybe there’s a situation that it can happen, but I feel like I can mix it with all people. But you know, I am in this body. So here we are.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

So one of the blessings of the pandemic is that it tore down barrier to entry. And there were a lot of people, whether they be studios or teachers who didn’t really know what to say or do, shockingly, honestly. But when — when they murdered George Floyd, I opened my mouth, and I haven’t been quiet since. Right, and started to speak just very candidly about — so for those of you for whom this is a blip on the radar screen, you’re negating my lived experience because George Floyd was a little bit taller than me, same age. And by all reputation, was a kind man in his community. And he was killed, basically, in a one of the most cruelest ways ever. And so if this passes by, and you stop thinking about it, then you don’t really care about justice, do you? Oh, right. So like me speaking this truth has actually been quite surprising in that, like, there’s some people who appreciate the honesty, right they wanted — if something is said about me that I remember and I get often, is that your authenticity is a breath of fresh air. There are norms and tropes that are so overplayed in the mindfulness space, or like the Buddhist space, or (?) space, and yogic space of everyone’s talking like this and find peace. Yeah, peace is not necessarily in a tone of voice. Sometimes the most peaceful thing I’ve done has taught someone to stop. Right, like peace is not a lack of confrontation, peace is deconflicting, but it’s —

 

David:

It’s confronting, too.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right, absolutely. Right, and so peace that is rooted in aversion or avoidance, that’s not peace, that’s delusion. Right, and so what I try and do, and luckily, I’ve been able to do is, I’m rooted in this, so I’m teaching a CU Boulder, right? And so like, that’s not — that’s not an historically, black college. So I can be my full self in these spaces, which empowers people who look like me, and informs people who don’t, right, because you can’t question my chops, like, whether it be the undergrad that I went to, or my yoga teachers, or my meditation teachers, all of them are like, known or many of them are known. So like, I’ve got like, the resume and all these other things. And so that gets me in the room, which allows me to speak my truth in different ways. I mean, I’ll give you another example. When I was at Omega, I gave a sound bath. And this woman who works at um, CU Boulder was there. And I don’t teach sound bath as a comfort. It’s a method of peaceful — peaceful presence. So hear all the sounds, feel all the feels. And as you feel all the feels, decide which is true, and what isn’t true release, those sorts of things. So it’s like it’s an exercising of the broader mindfulness skill. And this woman, she was like, Reggie, you played this sweet melody in the interim — in the interim, when you were switching your set. You were just like, you are not your mother fucking to do list. And at first, I was like, he said that — yeah, he said enough. But she was like, I’ve been saying that to myself, when I get wrapped up in my thoughts. If this big bodied hip hop and black dude, wasn’t that Omega teaching, she wouldn’t have had the awareness like when she gets wrapped up, you’re not looking to do list, you’re a spiritual being having a human experience. So me teaching and dropping like the bomb gave her the clarity to make an informed decision about where she focuses her attention. 

 

David:

That’s awesome. Yeah. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

But that’s why representation matters.

 

David:

I mean, I’m just gonna compliment you real quick, you are insanely unique. REGGIE LAUGHS. You know, what I mean, like —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah.

 

David:

It’s very surprising when you hear about your educational background and what you’ve done, and then how you shifted your life. It’s like everything you do, has been for the good of you and others, and it’s really beautiful to hear all that and how you’re just like, I’m gonna do mother fucking me. REGGIE LAUGHS. I’m gonna do me — I’m gonna do this right. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Always. Yep.

 

David:

I love hearing that. It’s always so interesting too being in spiritual spaces, because there’s tons of bypassing.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

And tons of homogeneity, right? Like, you know, I would rather have people, me, being like, you don’t help nobody. You being like me, you don’t help nobody. 

 

David:

Please don’t be like me. It would hurt. REGGIE LAUGHS. I don’t think people would want to be like me. The amount of thoughts I have in my head, it would crush them.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

I mean, why do you think I have so many gongs and sound bowls, right? But the — the world needs each of us at our full, uncompromised authentic selves, not as any as regurgitation of conformity. Right? And that’s how we — the seemingly intractable problems that we have, we have all of the ability and access to creativity, if we choose it.

 

David:

Yeah, there was another thing you said that I found interesting is justice, or what I assume that could be justice can be one sided. And the thing is, is what we need to realize is I always have this thing of like, how you define something is not how my internal definition goes. But like what we need to be conscious of is have that internal eraser to be willing to redefine it. Because as you get older, you redefine what love means to you, you redefine what —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Who you are, right.

 

David:

Friendships, relationship, collaboration, you have all these different terms that are very impactful to you and how you show up in life. But yet, you need to be willing to redefine some of those sometimes, I just thought that was cool, because it’s like, oh, they’re not getting justice. And it’s like, well, hold on, you’re not hearing the other perspectives of what they think Justice is as well,

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Right, I mean, I’ll give you an example of that, too, like so in my political work, I work on criminal justice reform narrative. And most people think voters want tough on crime. They don’t, they want solutions. They want police accountability. And this is like 65, 35, margins in polling. And what is commonly accepted as the right answer is wrong. And speaking what people really want, in the face of what others say they want, that’s justice.

 

David:

Yeah. And the voice in which that needs to come from and be said, needs to be an authentic one, or else it doesn’t really hold. And I feel like the way you’re teaching and facilitating and moving through life feels insanely authentic. Hence, the presence of someone or a way of being can really help others relax and just calm down and do their thing. You know, like, find their joy. It’s very calming. So I want to take this time to, like, just appreciate you for coming in the studio. It was like so — I actually went to the hot springs and had to come back a little early to do this. And I was super stoked, because I’ve never really done a Mindful U podcast with just a friend telling me to interview someone else. And I didn’t really get permission to and I just did it anyways, because once I saw who you were, I was like, nope, you gotta be on the podcast. You’re too in line with everything Naropa stands for. I’m gonna get you in touch with somebody because I think your teachings and your presence would really be so inviting to the Naropa community. And I just wanted to —

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Can’t wait. 

 

David:

Provide this time and space, do you want to shout out any upcoming events, any sites or any teaching tours that you got going on?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Yeah, so —

 

David:

How do people find you?

 

Reggie Hubbard:

You can always find me at Active Peace Yoga dot com, @Oreggieglobal on Instagram, that’s O-R-E-G-G-I-E Global. It’s Oreggie Global in Portuguese, but that’s TMI. @Active Peace Yoga on Instagram. And my email is open too, that’s the other thing, I’m not a teacher — that’s — I’m a human being, I’m not like a celebrity that’s untouchable. A man of the people so ActivePeaceYoga@gmail.com. It may take me a while, but I always respond.

 

David:

He’s a man of the people. He came to my house, in my basement, to talk to me about mindfulness and his practices. So reach out. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Absolutely. 

 

David:

Alright. So thank you so much for being on the podcast. 

 

Reggie Hubbard:

Absolutely. 

 

David:

I just appreciate your knowledge and your wisdom and just your presence.

 

Reggie Hubbard:

In gratitude. 

 

David:

Yeah, thank you.

[MUSIC]

On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.