Episode 100. Holistic Life Foundation: Let Your Light Shine

HLF 

Let Your Light Shine

TRT 42:35

[MUSIC]

 

Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement.

 

DAVID:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U Podcast. Today we have a very special guest in the studio, and also friends of mine, Ali and Atman Smith, and Andres Gonzalez, of the Holistic Life Foundation. And they are here today because Naropa brought them into town to speak to the community about their new book, which is called, Let Your Light Shine. And they’re also the founders of the Holistic Life Foundation, founded in 2001, working with school programs and other programs. And now they are here releasing their book, and they’re teaching yoga, they’re implementing programs, and they’re speaking to all these different events. And so we have them in the studio today. And welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I’m doing great, David, man, like, appreciate being on here again. I think this is our third time. I think that we have the record now. And I would have to correct you and say that we’re more like brothers than friends. We’re glad to be on here.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, a pleasure to be on here again, we love you so much. It’s great to be able to share some knowledge and some information about our new book.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, it’s definitely an honor to be back on here with you, David. Like it’s like the highlight of our 2023 so far.

 

DAVID:

Hey, yeah, seriously, so what’s actually pretty cool is you guys are the only people that have been on the podcast three times, I’ve only had other people come twice. You do have the record. You guys are the record holder for how many times you’ve been on this podcast. And throughout that journey, we’ve actually been pretty close friends. We’ve actually done projects other than the podcast. I’ve worked with the Holistic Life Foundation. And what’s also fun is we also started our own podcast a couple years back, and we kind of discontinued it just because it was a lot of work and stuff. But we actually podcast like tons of episodes together, you know. So I thought that was kind of interesting. Does anybody want to talk about our podcast real quick? Like, maybe we can just shout it out?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, I think our podcast, Look Again podcast was amazing, you know, it started off — seemed like more work than play. But it eventually became so fun doing the podcast once we got in a groove. And I really think that we had impactful guests come on. And, you know, our chats amongst each other was amazing. And I know a lot of my friends in Baltimore, became fans, just because it’s given them an outlet to be able to listen to information that they wouldn’t — wouldn’t get anywhere else. So, you know, I think it was, it still is amazing. And it’s you know, timeless information that I suggest anyone check it out. It’s the second best podcast out next to Mindful U. 

 

DAVID:

Hey, all right. Yeah, we had like 60 episodes or something. And it was really cool, because we’d do like individual talks. And then we’d also have guests as well. But my question to follow up with that is, you guys obviously have worked with a lot of people, like your work kind of allows you to be collaborative. What I’m wondering is, how do you find to collaborate with someone? Do you reach out to them? Do they reach out to you? Do they like find you online? What is the process like when you’re looking to work with someone? And or like an organization or something like that? Like, how do you set that up?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Usually, it’s through connection. I think a big part of us is like, the energy and the vibe behind the work. Because they’re a lot of people doing great work, but the vibe and the energy might not be right. Usually our partnerships come from meeting people and connecting with them, and then talking about doing work. So yeah, that vibe, that energy is very important to us.

 

DAVID:

Do you have some sort of, you know, what organizations you’re looking for? Or do some just pop out to you because like, say you’re trying to do some inner city schoolwork, you’re going to kind of reach out to principals and schools.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, some of its active outreach. Some of its passive, like the stuff the universe throws away. Some of it, we may need a specific partner. So we might have to — like you said a principal, or researcher or someone along those lines. But even with those situations, it works better, and we have a connection with the person. Like even our research partners are people that we have connections with. The principal is where the program is most successful. People we have connection with, because I think the amount of energy and amount of love we put into our programming, it’s good when our program partners can put in — can match that energy and it just makes everything that much more successful.

 

DAVID:

And how many times do people reach out to you?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

They reach out to us all the time, honestly, just because we have a lot of work that is you know, publicized, you know, we’ve been — we have a viral article, that video that comes out online every once in a while talking about changing detention to meditation. So yeah, like, are responding to emails is nonstop. 

 

DAVID:

Okay, very cool. So HLF has worked with a variety of different groups and organizations, you know, we’re just talking about collaborations from schools to detention centers to senior centers. And what I’m curious is, these facilities and organizations that are kind of different, they function — like a senior center and a detention center, they have like different rules, different things they are allowed to do, and you know, like time constraints, whatever, like what they’re allowed to do. And I’m wondering, how do you adapt your programs to meet specific needs for these different like populations, and also the settings that you go into with your programs or your, you know, the work that you’re doing.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I think it really starts off with a teacher. Uncle Will used to always share with us how we had to speak to different people in different languages. And wherever we go, we package it in a different way, try to make it practical and relatable to the audience that we’re speaking to. So, though, we’re using the same type of techniques and practices and philosophies, I wouldn’t talk to a kindergartener about stress the same way I would talk to an adult about stress, for example. You know, so we’re always trying to use, you know, techniques or methods that will resonate with the population that we’re working with, so that they can buy into it more, they can relate to it more, and you want to make it practical to them so that they’re like, oh, okay, I can see how this will benefit me, in my life, where I’m at right now here at this moment.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And I was gonna say, I think the other thing is, like, just listening to people, like people will tell you what they need and where they’re struggling if you just listen like, and you’re not just going in with an agenda of, I’m going to teach this person this. But if you go in, and you’re just like, really open heart, open mind, open ears, and you’re present with them, they’ll tell you exactly what they need. And then you can serve them better that way.

 

DAVID:

Nice. Okay. I like what you just said too, because other than like coming in with a choreographed way to have a program, sometimes you’re allowing yourself to see the moment and see what they need. So it’s like he can change what you think he wanted to do on the fly and be like, oh, I’m seeing that maybe you need to not sit down. You need to like do some more bodywork. So let’s — let’s change the format a little.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, we’re big on the toolbox over the curriculum. You know what I mean, like curriculums, people get tied to them. And it kind of limits your ability to adapt as a teacher. And some people just kind of use it as a crutch. And they go in, and like I’m teaching this, but like, you’re saying, like, if you pay attention to people, you’ll know what they need, and you can adjust. So we’re big on like, you know, there’s a basic class structure, but you got to be able to flow with it. And you got to be able to see what people need, and you pull the tool out of the toolbox that they’re going to need.

 

DAVID:

What you just said, just reminded me of our yoga study, and how we were kind of stuck to — just because they wanted the fidelity to be high, we were stuck to teaching the exact same teaching out of a curriculum that we created, every time we met with the kids. But, you know, it really didn’t work like that. Like, honestly, for the simple fact that, you know, one day I remember, Ali dealt with a kid, there was like a hostage situation across from his school. I think at one of Andy’s schools, they found a dead body, you know, in front of the school. So, you know, it wasn’t really — all right, yeah, you need to go into downward dog, or you need to take 10 deep breaths, it was more, meeting the kids where they were and letting them express, you know, what they needed to express to get that trauma out of their system, even though it really didn’t get it all out, it was good to be able to talk about it. So it’s really one of those things, like Ali was saying, like it’s all about, you know, having a toolbox, and then you know, if something comes up, meet your students where they are to be able to give them what they need.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, I mean, in those situations, I can see how just being present and listening is more beneficial than like, oh, do your downward dog. Alright, wonderful. So I read your mission statement that HLF has a strong commitment to environmental health and like stewardship of the land. And I’m wondering, how do you incorporate this into your programming? And why is it important to your organization mission and your goals. And, you know, I know you that you work with the breath and the yoga and your mind, but like you’re also integrating with the earth. And yesterday, you guys had a talk at Naropa and Atman you’re like talking about how you were doing gardening work with the kids. And once they got their hands in the dirt, like I don’t know if I want to do this. And, you know, sometimes it might be hard to get kids into the dirt and you think it’d be fun, but sometimes they don’t want to do it. And I was just kind of want to hear how important it is that they do do that.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I mean, when we started HLF half of what we were doing was environmental work, like the whole goal of HLF was to show the interconnectedness between the health of the planet and the health of the people on it. And you couldn’t — you couldn’t have healthy people without a healthy planet, or a healthy plan without healthy people. We were doing — we had like these — these original brochures that we did, and I think there were like seven pillars of what HLF was going to be about. And I’m pretty sure like five of them were actually environmental things. But it was just like, you know, we were getting started, we were doing the yoga, we were doing the environmental work, and no one else was doing yoga, particularly in Baltimore, like no one was doing it in the schools. And there are tons of people doing environmental work. So it just made more sense for us as far as building our business, to just focus on the yoga work. The environmental stuff was still there, like we still did it. But it just wasn’t a major focus, because we could bring in program partners, and help put on grassroots organizations that could do work within our program that we could pay them for, and they could start building their resume. It’s something that, like I said, it’s a very important to HLF and a part of connection, because like getting kids to connect to themselves and connect to the earth, means you got to take care of the planet. There’s so many like environmental justice issues, particularly in Baltimore, asthma rates, like there’d be schools, we would go into, like 80% of the kids would have asthma, or they would be dealing with lead paint issues in their homes, or they didn’t have any fresh foods. It was like — or they had no connection to the natural world. So, it was very important for us to connect the kids to themselves and connect them to the planet. And then it just opens up, like kids who had never been camping before out in the woods were like begging us to take them to the park on nice days back when we were running our after school program. Or like kids that we haven’t seen and like, I don’t know, in like 10 years — when was the last time, we saw Kwame? Like 10 years ago? He’s still like — he calls on the phone. He’s incarcerated now. But he still talks about the time we took him camping on Miss Beth’s farm.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

What Ali was saying takes me back to thinking about, you know, one of our former students who was really caught up in the gang life. And we saw him actually, when we were bringing some of our kids back from camping. And we got out the car, we saw him, and we gave him a big hug. And you know, he talked about how much us taking him camping still means so much to him and asked us to tell all his homeboys how nice he was at basketball, and you know, all this other stuff. And when we got back in the car, the kids were like, oh my gosh, how do you know him? He’s so intimidating and da, da, da. But it was really like, exposing people to peace, love, truth. Honestly, it’s beautiful seeing that if you are there in people’s lives and the impact that you have, like, you may not think that it may be a lasting impression that you have on these people’s lives, because it’s such a short period of time. But you know, when you’re taking people out of their comfort zones and exposing them to, you know, other things that can — like you were saying, like connecting them with nature or, you know, teaching them practices that can give them inner peace. They love you forever. And you know, it’s a beautiful bond to grow in the community.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

It was cool to see the kids go from kids who were littering to kids that were stewards of the environment. Like they would throw trash out the windows when would drive them to the YMCA. So we kind of like to two block rule, where you drive for two blocks and make them get out and go pick up their piece of trash and another piece of trash. It like — it became a whole thing. And the kids got so smart about it that one day one of the kids was eating an apple, and he threw out the window, and other kids were like, ooh, you’re going to get int trouble. He was like, shut up its biodegradable.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, it does biodegrade. But sometimes it’s still like in the way. And that’s cool, because it kind of just shows you that someone’s got to pick it up. Like if you’re just throwing it out your car window like someone else is going to take care of it or you know, it’s not going to end up in a good place that it should be.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

The craziest thing is that all the parents were like — when we did community cleanups, they were like, I don’t know why you’re worried about doing the community cleanups, when it rains, it cleans everything up. And that was a learning experience for our kids, because we took them down to the Inner Harbor, where all of the trash from, you know, the gutters went. And you know, that is another thing that was like an a-ha moment for our students. And they actually started educating people in our neighborhood about that also.

 

DAVID:

Yeah. And what’s really cool is I’ve heard you say this a bunch, where it’s like you’re educating kids, you’re educating kids about meditation, being stewards of the land, and like mindfulness, and just like techniques of body and heart and mind and all this. And then what they do is they teach to their parents, or they teach their friends. And I’ve heard you say this multiple times, and like, it’s very awesome. So it’s like, if you teach someone younger, they’ll — they’ll teach upwards. You get the kids, and then they’ll be teaching your stuff, and helping everyone else out to like, what’s good and what’s not.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Definitely. The whole reciprocal teaching model as a way to be able to — that we’ve used to reverberate our — our teaching and message and energy out into the world by, you know, creating teachers is what our teacher taught us, you know, he was talking about like, for us to be — learn from him, we had to be teachers and not students. And that’s the way we — the approach that we have because, you know, we can make a difference, us three — me, Andy and Ali. If we teach everybody that we come in contact with, how to be, you know, stewards of their environment and then stewards of, you know, their self, like, they will definitely pass that knowledge on to other people. You know, it’s empowering. 

 

DAVID:

Yeah. Awesome, good work. So as a nonprofit organization, how does the HLF funded programming and operations and you know, what are some of the biggest challenges you face in sustaining your programs and reaching new communities? Do you get grants for the events? Do you get sponsors? Do you get public funding? Is it like your money that you’re throwing in and investing? How do you keep it alive? And how do you keep developing more programs? Do people come to you — a school come to you and says, I really love your program, we got some funding, can we work with you? Like, how does that relationship look?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

So as far as funding goes, it comes from a lot of different places, probably like 60% of funding — of our funding is from fee for service programs. It’s like us going out and teaching and training, speaking engagements, professional development, things along those lines. Probably 35% of it is from foundations, maybe close to 55, or 40, now, from foundations — local, federal, national foundations. But the local foundations, we definitely have a lot of love for because they’ve supported us in sustaining ourselves and helping ourselves grow in Baltimore. And then I’d say the last little bit, that last 5% comes from private donors. And we’re very thankful for our private donors, too, because they could be sending their money to any nonprofit, but they send it to us because they liked the work that we do. As far as programs go, I’d say in the beginning, we were jumping at anything, like it was very organic, it was like, hey, I have X amount of dollars, like he was saying, like, can you do a program for us? Like, yep. And we would figure something out or work with them to figure something out. And now because of our growth, it’s very intentional with our programming. Like, we have certain programs that we offer, we have a program menu, and then they can pick from that. There may be a little tweaking, depending upon budgets —

 

DAVID:

So you have tiers now, because you probably had different people coming in with different budgets. So you decided to make some tiers?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I mean, it’s kind of tiers, it’s still the same program — I mean, it’s like the — we can scale back the programs for them. Like we have — we know the ways that the programs work, the high success rate, and that’s ideally what we’ll do. But sometimes it’s out of a school’s budget. So we might scale it back a little bit to fit into their budget. I think we’ve come up with, like, best practices around making impacts in kids’ lives K through 12. And it works — it works well, if it’s facilitated the way that it’s designed. But you know, for — for whatever reason, they might not be able to — and you know, and sometimes we do look for grant funding to help support the schools so that they can have the program the way that it’s designed to be implemented.

 

DAVID:

And yesterday, Atman, said it about — what was that guy that you love? Who — the reason you became a nonprofit —

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Matthew Lesko.

 

DAVID:

Because, you know, you saw a guy with a question mark on his suit and —

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Looking like the Riddler. 

 

DAVID:

And so the reason you guys started a nonprofit was because you realized to get grants, you needed to have an organization you were writing the grant from, because you know, I’m sure you guys are just thinking like, oh, like us three to have this idea. But it was like the organization needed to have the idea. So then you created the org. Was there any idea to create a nonprofit before that? Or was that the initiative to do it?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

No, honestly, it was, once we figured out that the government wasn’t going to pay for us because we were just individuals, and we needed a nonprofit. And that’s honestly what made us create a nonprofit so we can support us empowering communities. 

 

DAVID:

Awesome. Okay, getting into it now. So you guys are here at Naropa in Boulder, because you know, you’re guest speakers. And like one of the organizations brought you out from Naropa. And you’re here talking about your book, Let Your Light Shine and the journey of that book. And I’m just curious, real quick, like, what was the messaging at the panel that you guys did yesterday? Like, how did that go for you? What was your experience like, like talking to the Naropa community?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I mean, it was fun. It’s always great to share our experience and our stories and our journey. And all that we’ve been through in these 20 plus years of doing this work. It was nice to connect with the Crown organization, who was the ones asking us questions and kind of moderating the conversation so that the audience could get a full grasp of what it is that we do, who we are, and all the things that we do do. And then it was nice to have little Q&A at the end and hear some of the students ask us questions about all the stuff that we’re doing. So it’s always a pleasure to share our work, our journey, our stories, all that type of stuff. I think it went pretty well. We always have a good time being up there. And I think that we made a lot of new friends. And hopefully a lot of new fans, the work that we do.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, and you guys are no stranger to Naropa too. You guys been here a lot. So the community does know you and knows the work that you do. But when the newest students get to hear from you, they’re always very excited, I see.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah. And it’s actually very inspirational to see a lot of the students from Naropa and what their vision is for the future and how they’re trying to make a change in the world, and especially systemically what’s going on with the world nowadays, how there all these systems that are kind of broken. To see these younger kids have these aspirations and these dreams, and to kind of be set in their sails to make a change in the world and make it a better place and spread the love. So it’s always exciting to talk about what we did and how — what we’ve accomplished just being three guys, just having this mission where we want to spread love and spread these techniques and — and to empower people. And it’s great to see that the youth of today have that same vision and that they’re moving forward to try to make the world a better place.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And it’s always good to connect with Chuck Lief, the president of Naropa, like we’ve known him for like a decade now. He’s actually on the board of the Holistic Life Foundation. He’s always — great advice, great to just hang with. He’s got great stories. His wife, Judy, we hung with them earlier today. And then like some of the staff at Naropa — Betsy, Regina, and definitely a big shout out to Sean and Jacob and Austin, for getting us out here. They put in a lot of hard work to make it happen, to get the event set up, and we’re very supportive. So definitely appreciate the three of them.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, we definitely really appreciated it. The event was flawless. And you know, they do great work. 

 

DAVID:

Yeah, awesome. So you guys recently just came out with your first ever book, Let Your Light Shine. And now we get to add authors to all your accomplishments and all the things that you’re doing? And what I’m curious about, what inspired you guys to write this book? And how does it differ from like some of the events that you go to, because it’s like a different format. Instead of teaching people in a live setting, you actually have written content. And I’ve also heard you guys talk about how you’re able to say stuff in your book, that you’re essentially not allowed, or not necessarily allowed, but different organizations you work with trying to make you not maybe talk about yogi terminology. So I’m curious, like, what is your experience about that being able to say, where you come from, talk about your roots, instead of having a little sensor over you of, you can’t talk about karma, or energy or reincarnation, mantras, or all the other stuff that comes with that.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

It’s liberating to have the chains basically lifted off of us. For a while, you know, our personal practice — I mean, even to this day, personal practice looks a lot different than we are able to teach in schools. You know, our mentor, friend, big brother, Mark Greenberg told us a long time ago that, you know, our work is really important, and we don’t want to, you know, piss anybody off by verbiage and, you know, understanding how to speak to people and still teach them these timeless practices that can help them navigate the human experience is really what it’s all about. So, you know, we’ve adjusted where we needed to, and, you know, become proficient as far as what verbiage to use in certain demographics to be able to still get our message and techniques across.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, I would say similar to what I was saying, when we spoke, it’s exciting to be able to share, you know, what we’ve done in these 20 plus years, and not only the stories and the experiences, but the practices, like Atman was saying, oftentimes we can’t share, some of them are of our personal practices, and to be able to give that to our readers, I think is gonna be very beneficial for them. And also, you know, showing people, I don’t want to say, like, we’re professionals in this, but you know, we’ve been doing this for a long time. So we consider ourselves pretty much experts in the field. So when it comes to not only having your own practice, and how essential that is when it comes to sharing this with other people. So the dynamics in the book, where we’re teaching techniques and practices, so you can start discovering more who you are and yourself and walking your own path and having your own practice, you know, and moving forward. And if you do want to start making an impact in your community, in your neighborhood, in other areas, we kind of give some guidelines and some tips and tools and techniques from what we’ve learned over the years, from what we stumbled over. And we figured out, try to make it easier for individuals to kind of go into different areas and share this work as well. Because we understand that it takes more than just three people to make a difference. You know, it really does take a village to raise children properly and to uplift communities and to empower people. And hopefully, the material in the book will allow people to take that step forward and really make a big change.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And Let Their Light Shine.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

You know and I think you were telling — you were asking about the inspiration for the book. I think with that it was just getting our story out to more people. And I think one of the things that we really love about the book is the number of voices that are in there. So it’s not just stories from us, there’s direct stories from our dad, our mom, some of our former students that became instructors for us, people from the community, like people from up at the Mohawk reservation up in Akwesasne. You know, it’s like, we just like hearing all the voices. And I think our main thing with that is to give people tools, but also to inspire people to go out and make change. Because people — a lot of times people are stalled on going out and doing things in the world, in the community. Don’t know where to start, or they feel like they’re not going to make a difference. But just like changing yourself makes a difference in the world, but also empowering other people starts to make that change too. 

 

DAVID:

Awesome. So between Ali and Andy, what I’m hearing is there’s many different ways that you could read this book because there’s like a lot of different stories from all the different voices. But I mean, obviously you guys are writing it, but you’re taking these stories from different people, whether it’s your mom or dad, Uncle Will or like experiences you had with doing this work. I’m also curious — because I know you guys are big into mantras. I know you guys are big into yoga, and I know you guys are big into meditation. Are you teaching people meditation and breath work stuff as well? Is it like a book that you learn techniques from? And it’s also story driven, like, what kind of content are we going to come up with when we read this book? And also, what was the process like working with each other reading your first book?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I think it has all those in them, like that there’s mantras, there’s mudras, there’s breath work, there’s meditations, there’s physical yoga, there’s off the mat practices. We tried to tie them all in there, so that people can have something that they can, like, connect to and use in their real life, but not just when they’re on their mat, or when they’re on a meditation cushion, but like out in the world. I feel like that was really important to us. Yeah, and most — I mean, all the stuff in there, stuff we learned from Uncle Will. Like, I mean, he was our teacher, he put us on the path and made sure that we were constantly learning until even his trans — even the moment of his transition was a learning experience for us. So it was like, he was constantly teaching us and giving us tools to kind of live our lives and help other people uplift themselves. So there’s a lot of tools in there, everybody that reads it, whether you’re just starting off with a contemplative practice, or you’ve been doing it for your entire life, there’s things that you can get out of it to enhance your practice.

 

DAVID:

Okay. And when it comes to the message in the book, what’s the goal for the reader? Like you want them to have a toolbox of things they can do if they’re in situations they don’t like, whether they’re — it’s a physical situation or a mental situation? Or are you trying to give them stories they can relate to and use as like a learning tool? It seems like there’s a couple of different things going on here. And I’m just wondering, if I read the whole book, what do you think I would say about it, like, oh, you know, all these mantras really helped me or like, you know, the story about your dad, and, you know, meeting Uncle Will that really was profound, because it makes me realize that, like, energy is out there. And there’s so many amazing people, and you just don’t know when you’re gonna meet them. Like, what’s that vibe like?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I think it depends on the reader. You know, I think there’s such a wide variety of different things that we put in the book. So some people, when they read it, they may resonate more with the stories and say, oh, wow, it was amazing to hear these experiences and what Uncle Will and Smitty and Cassie went through when they were younger, or what some of your students talked about, and the experiences they had, and the adversity they faced, and how to use some of these techniques. Or some people may resonate more with the techniques themselves and be like, wow, I really like the breathing. I really like the mantras or, man, I’ve never heard of that mudra before, I’ve started using that, so they might get that toolbox that really, really helps them. But I think ultimately, I think hopefully, what the reader gets out of this is they remember how special they are, you know, and how special each and every one of us are. And when you really start going inward. And we talk about that involution you know what I mean? Like, not worrying about the external as much but you know, enhancing yourself internally and letting your light shine. That’s why it’s called, Let Your Light Shine. So I think ultimately, what I hope the reader gets out of it is they understand that they are infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent beings, and they can do anything that their heart desires, and they can fulfill their dreams. But they do need to, you know, go inward, work on themselves first, and really understand who they are. And I think in turn, that will allow them to let their light shine and be the best version of themselves and be able to make a larger impact in the world.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And just to build on what Andy was saying. It’s like a lot of different demographics that, you know, it can impact. I think, like Ali was saying, I think one of the things that we hope the book does the most is inspire people to make change to be the change they want to see in the world. Like, we saw a lot of things wrong with the world, whether it’s the disparity in the educational system, or the lack of fresh foods and food deserts in the hood, the lack of mental health care for, you know, people in our communities. So, you know, we try to, you know, address those issues. And I think that, hopefully, when people read this book, they will, you know, understand that it was just three dudes from college that, you know, saw something wrong in the world. And, you know, they were trying to figure out how to help support and, you know, bring peace to a lot of chaotic situations. And we made like, systematic impacts on like, you know, the school system, and, you know, a lot of other things and like I said, we we’re just three random dudes in college. And, you know, hopefully people see that and get motivated to, you know, be the change that they want to see in the world because, you know, it’s a lot of chaos going on in the world, and we need more light bearers to actually bring that light into this dark place that we’re at in society.

 

DAVID:

And I think it’s a good idea to add different forms of the storytelling, the actions that you might want to take or the meditations because, like how you said, Andy, it can hit multiple different people because you know, multiple people are going to like read a book and they’re like oh, I’m really into the meditation, or I’m really into the stories, it’s really impactful to me. So it’s like you can hit a wider range of people to inspire than if it was just like a, you know, like a coffee table book with just pictures only or something. 

 

So — another thing I’m wondering, so I’m wondering, how can mindfulness because you guys do a lot of work with mindfulness practices like yoga and meditation helped rebuild communities, particularly in areas that have experienced significant trauma or like social upheaval. It’s an interesting concept to be like, oh, here’s a place that’s kind of struggling, let’s go teach them meditation or yoga, but it tends to work. So what do you think is actually happening when you bring yoga to these significant spots? And also, what do you think the yoga is doing? Like why yoga?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I don’t know, if I would say necessarily that mindfulness is going to fix these things, you know what I mean? I think some of the techniques that mindfulness gives to people, or the yogic philosophy brings to people allows them to look at the world in different way, and particularly look at themselves in a different way. So I think a lot of times we’re going — we’re going into these communities, we’re providing people with these tools and techniques, to help them deal with adversity, to help them deal with some of the traumas they’ve faced, to help them deal with stress and anger, the frustration, stuff that’s going on in society, stuff that’s going on externally and internally. And I think one of the main things it does, is it really gives people a higher sense of self-worth. And they learn to love themselves more. I think, when you learn to love yourself more than you’re able to understand maybe what other people are going through, and you might be able to put yourselves in them shoes — in their shoes a little bit better, you know. So then now you’re looking at people in a different light, you’re looking at them — at them, like they’re mirrors of yourself. And I think you start learning to love other people easier. So when you learn to love yourself, then you can learn to love others. And I think that love starts spreading further and further. And that’s when you start seeing the change in the community. I wouldn’t say that just going and saying, especially with mindfulness and awareness practices is going to change a community and heal trauma. You know, I think it’s deeper than that. And I think that’s why when we go in, and we’re using some of these yoga philosophies and techniques, with individuals that it is a deeper practice than just awareness practices, and they’re starting to find a interconnectedness between everyone and all things. And then they learn to love themselves more, they learn to love each other more, because they see that everyone’s interconnected. And that’s when the community really is uplifted and it transforms more, and you’re empowering people. I think that’s when we actually start seeing more change.

 

DAVID:

Yeah, okay. Andy is always about love. But what I’m also realizing is, you know, you start learning how to deal with fear on a deeper level. You start learning how to deal with your anxiety, or confrontation, because I’m sure there’s like, a lot of confrontational moments where your anger takes over, but you’re able to — to channel your anger a bit more. And it’s probably because you know how to love deeper, you know, you’re teaching them those, like, essential skills to calm your nerves.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, I think when you learn and know more about yourself, and who you really are, I think it’s easier to manage emotions, because then you don’t identify with those emotions as much, because you know, that you’re separate from those emotions. So then you can start attaching those emotions that you’re feeling with the objects that bring on those emotions, instead of saying, you know, like, when someone says, I’m angry, they’re identifying with the anger, and they’re not angry, you know, like, I’m not angry. I’m Andy. Right? But people will say, I’m angry. And then they start identifying with the emotion itself, instead of finding where did that anger come from? What object brought on that emotion? And then to deal with the object instead of the emotion itself?

 

DAVID:

Yeah, you are not a feeling, you are something that has — 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Has feelings.

 

DAVID:

Has the ability to feel.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yes. 

 

DAVID:

So, of course, I’m not angry, because — because am I going to be happy when I’m happy? Am I — you know, it’s like you — you have a roller coaster of emotion. So it’s like, it’d be exhausting, if you are that at — all the times, it’s like geez. 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, we —

 

DAVID:

Not feeling.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

It’s the human experience, we have feelings. But it’s a matter of understanding that those are feelings that we’re feeling. That’s not who we are.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And the practices also help people to heal — heal physiologically, and neurologically, from the trauma that they’ve been through. Because like, things you were talking about, the fear, the anxiety, and the impulsiveness, like, all those are byproducts of trauma. You know what I mean? Like, your brain can’t access those higher functions, when you’re — when you’ve been traumatized. So like, I think a big part of what we do is help people heal from their trauma. We give them tools, where their body can become safe, they can start to rewire their brain, and then they’re able to function. Like they should be able to function out in the world before they were traumatized. So like fear is put into proper perspective. They’re not as anxious about things. They’re not impulsive, they can respond instead of react to things. So it’s like, it’s very, it’s multifaceted. It’s energetic. It’s physical. It’s neurological, but it’s all about healing.

 

DAVID:

I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is you can’t necessarily access the higher workings of your mind because, is it because you are dislocated those pathways, those electronic pathways in your brain? Or is it you just don’t know the directions on how to get there in your mind? What do you think is actually in the way? Is it like a calcification pineal gland being calcified? Is it something like that where it’s unusable? Because you’re not — it’s like a muscle, you’re not flexing it? Like, what do you think is going on?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I think it more has to do with not having access to like the part of your brain that has executive function, and you know, all that type of stuff that makes that happen. I don’t think it’s really like a calcified pineal gland.

 

DAVID:

I hear that. I think — I think I know what you’re saying about it’s like a higher functioning capacity that might just not be available. If you’re in fight or flight, it’s a different part of your brain. So love probably doesn’t come — love comes from you being in a comfy position. It’s hard to love when you’re constantly like running from death or fear, or something.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And not having access to your vagus nerve is really big, too, because that’s like that threat perception, that connection with your mind and your body. And, you know, a lot of communities that have been through a lot of trauma, besides not having access to executive function, you know, their vagus nerve isn’t firing properly. So, you know, it’s a lot of different issues.

 

DAVID:

I had this thought, and I was wondering how much of your work is physical compared to mental? So I know that yoga has a lot of principles and practices that utilize both faculties. And I also know that meditation, there’s like postures, there’s mudras, you know, there’s like fingers. And — but then there’s also the mental capacity to flex as well. So I’m wondering, how do you see that? And how do you express these different qualities? How do you use these qualities together, because you guys talk about using your mind, but then you also have body practices. So there’s like a physical and a mental aspect to these things, these teachings that you teach. And I’m wondering, like, is there any moments where you tend to focus more on the mind, tend to focus more on the physical, like, how does that work?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I mean, that mind, body, spirit connection is real. That’s a part of the reason we named our organization the Holistic Life Foundation, because you have to look at all the parts as a whole, and you can’t just focus on one, you have to focus on the entire thing. So I think we’re always working on the mind, the body, and I guess, the spirit too, whether that’s just a connection to yourself, whether that’s — whatever you want to call it, we’re working on all those things at the same time. I think we do go in a certain order. Like we usually start with the physical because you got to make the body safe for people who have been traumatized. You can’t just jump right into like meditation or silence. But, you know, start with the movement, do some breathing, start to slow things down internally, and then jump into some meditation. The way yoga is set up, like if you read, if you look at like the eight limbs like it goes, asana, pranayama, I mean, the yama’s and niyama’s, but I’m talking about the physical part of the practice. It’s asana, pranayama, and then four stages of meditation. So, you know, like, I feel like we stick to that classical model. There’s a reason it was put together that way. So I mean, we follow that, and it’s been helping people heal — heal their mind, heal their body, and connect to their spirit.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I thought Ali really said that perfectly. I think we could summarize it or say it more succinctly by saying it’s multifaceted.

 

DAVID:

So I know you I travel a lot. And you know, you’re actually in Boulder, because you’re here as guest speakers to the university. And you know, you go on tours, you create events, you do all these different types of workshops, and, you know, work with organization and school programs. But what I’m wondering, are there any new ideas, programs, conversational pieces that you are interested in pursuing? Anything new, any new developments in HLF, like programming? Or are you adding any new things to the programs any, like anything new out there that you’re trying to do? Or are you just kind of sticking to the same old playbook that you guys got? What’s going on?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

One thing that’s really exciting, is, you know, the fact that we got a commitment from the Clinton Global Foundation. And they’re going to help us expand one of our programs, the Mindful Movement program, you know, the program that gets highlighted every once in a while, through a viral video talking about turning detention to meditation. They’re gonna help us expand to five different cities, you know, around the nation. And I think it’s really dope, just to see how that program, you know, helps out these schools, teachers, students, you know, everyone. And then we’re also going to get Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk, and the Trauma Research Foundation to do research on the effectiveness of the program. So — 

 

DAVID:

Oh, that’s dope!

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

It’s really exciting. 

 

DAVID:

He’s very qualified for this. 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Hey, I think he might be a little bit qualified. 

 

DAVID:

He’s — he was on our podcast, The Look Again, podcast, and he was way more funnier than I thought he would be.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

I mean, another thing we’re excited about is the growth of our satellite program. We started, I guess, in July, we’re move it into the fourth year of our program up in Akwesasne. Yeah, we’re just excited about the growth of our staff, Mary, our fearless leader up there and the new staff we’re bringing on. It’s dope to see the support that we get from the chiefs up there and yeah, things are just flourishing on the reservation and beyond in the surrounding counties, helping the kids in Headstart, the K through 12 schools, the seniors, and the drug treatment centers, and just out in the community. I think, eventually looking for a second city to do a satellite program in — something that’s on our — on our radar. And, we’re gonna work through the Clinton Global Initiative that Atman was talking about first, and then we’ll start looking for another satellite city.

 

DAVID:

Nice. Yeah. And that’s — that’s pretty dope you’re working with the — with the Clinton Foundation. What is it?

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Clinton Global Foundation. 

 

DAVID:

Yeah, that’s awesome. So congratulations on that.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

We even got to meet Hillary Clinton when we were there. It was pretty dope.

 

DAVID:

Oh did you? 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah.

 

DAVID:

That’s cool. 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And I told her how great her hair looked.

 

DAVID:

Nice. 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

He really did, like she was like — because everybody was like, all nervous. And he was like, your hair looks amazing. And she was like, oh wow.

 

DAVID:

He’s a good icebreaker, I witnessed that today. 

 

All right, well, I mean, this — this was an amazing conversation. I really appreciate talking to you guys again. You know, you guys have the record. We’ll keep that consistent. I’m excited to work with you guys on a deeper level. Because you know, we have a friendship and we’ve done some — many projects together. And just for our audience, before we go, let them know where they can find your work, your book. Where they can buy your book. I got my copy, I’m gonna make you sign it after this podcast, because I haven’t had it signed yet. And you did a book signing yesterday, I just forgot to bring it. 

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Oh, I can’t wait to sign his book.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah.

 

DAVID:

You gotta be nice to me, or — I don’t know, do what you want. We’ll see what happens. But can you just let the audience know where they can like find your websites and also your book and all that fun stuff.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

The book, you can go to, LetYourLightShineBook.com You can also check Amazon, but check your local bookstores first and support them. Great to support the local businesses. Holistic Life Foundation, HLFInc.org. And the work we do with the Involution Group, is involution.love.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

And we also do some work on, Insight Timer. So you know, check out Involution Group on there as well.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

Yeah, I just want to say thank you, David. It’s always a pleasure being on here with you. You’re a professional and you always do such an amazing job and we’re always excited to be talking with you. So —

 

DAVID:

Oh, thanks bro.

 

Holistic Life Foundation:

We love you very much. 

 

Much love to y’all guys. 

 

[MUSIC]

 

On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.